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Optimal solution should be...


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From Markham's Regional Councillor Jim Jones, at this link, comes this proposal:



An alternative to the DRL?

Sorry for rehashing this but I just came across this idea on Google and I thought this was an excellent idea. At $1-2 billion to connect Markham and Scarborough directly to Union Station, this is a much cheaper option than some of the other RT options out there. Only issue I see is the corridor from Steeles down to Kennedy is pretty narrow and can only fit one track I believe. In Metrolinx previous idea of having all-day service with 2 tracks, what was their solution for the south corridor? Still, love the idea and is a real solution for drawing traffic away from the Yonge line.
 
so when is the TTC downtown rapid transit expansion report coming out? Wasn't it supposed to come out in early 2012?? Seems like it kind of got swept under the rug.
 
According to the October 24th TTC Meeting agenda (page 3):

2. Presentations
(a) Transit Oriented Development and the Sustainable City (For Information)
(b) Downtown Rapid Transit Expansion Study (DRTES) – Phase 1 Strategic Plan (For Information)

http://ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Commiss...12/October_24/Agenda/Agenda_-_October_24_.pdf

Edit:
And the presentation itself is now posted:
http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Commission_reports_and_information/Commission_meetings/2012/October_24/Reports/Downtown_Rapid_Trans.pdf
 
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Thanks raptor. It's about bloody time. Interesting they chose the King alignment
They haven't chosen the King alignment. The report says that it reflects "an illustrative-only King Street alignment and example DRL station locations, the specific alignment and station locations will be assessed and determined during future phases of the project." The bold and underlining is in the report to the commission - which is an unusual step, and I assume they are doing this to make sure no one assumes that the alignment has been selected.

It also says that the complete report is posted on the TTC website at http://www3.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Pr...ntown_Rapid_Transit_Expansion_Study/index.jsp however that does not yet appear to be the case.
 
Interesting section here: "Some GO lines will not have sufficient capacity – Many of the GO Rail lines to the downtown will be at capacity, even with the improvements included in the reference network. From the north, passenger demand is forecast to exceed the capacities of the Barrie and Stouffville GO lines. Ridership on the Lakeshore East GO line is estimated to significantly exceed the future capacity of the line."

They then go on to say: "Given the key issues detailed above, the DTRES study considered rapid transit infrastructure alternatives along two primary corridors: a “downtown relief” corridor creating a new travel option for passengers on the Bloor-Danforth subway line to travel into the downtown (DRL); and a rapid transit alternative along the Lakeshore rail corridor providing more rapid transit capacity into the downtown from south Scarborough and south Etobicoke. In each case, the alternatives are envisioned as high-capacity, grade-separated rapid transit similar to a subway service, operating as part of the TTC system with current TTC fares."

Are they expecting that the electrification of the Lakeshore East corridor will not provide sufficient passenger capacity, so the TTC needs to run a duplicate service along the corridor? That seems pretty strange to me, considering that Lakeshore West currently has a higher ridership, but they don't talk about any capacity concerns along that corridor. Theoretically if it's being run as a single through-line the capacity of each corridor would be identical, no? Assuming the same number of electrified tracks are being used, which I'm sure they would be.

EDIT: It seems they address it further on:

Two Lakeshore Rapid Transit alternatives were also considered which would provide local rapid transit (subway-like) services parallel to the Lakeshore GO corridor:
 Lakeshore RT East (Rouge Hill to Union)
 Lakeshore RT East and West (Rouge Hill to Long Branch)

Seems to me this is pretty similar to what I proposed in my GO REX plan (ie the overlapping of a local rapid transit service on top of a regional rapid transit service along the same corridor, in order to boost capacity within Toronto). Naturally I approve of the approach the TTC wants to take, haha.
 
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Another interesting note. Look at Exhibit 5. Only the Eglinton & Spadina lines are dashed in as "future". The SRT extension, the SELRT, and the FWLRT are nowhere to be seen. Yet York Region, Brampton, and Mississauga LRT and BRT projects are clearly shown.

Just thought that was interesting.
 
We don't need any more "studies" on the necessity of a DRL. The entire world knows it is necessary, except TTC. There has been several similar studies done in the past 50 years if I am not mistaken, when we needed this line 10 years ago. Spending another $3M on this old topic AGAIN is ridiculous.

Don Mills- Thorncliffe - Pape - King or Queen. Isn't that obvious? What to study over and over again? Relieves Yonge subway and the DVP.

What needs to be done is finalizing the plan ASAP and start digging. The Yonge line is choking every morning. Soon enough transit riders will find how it feels to be in a subway in Tokyo and Shanghai, cities 5 times our size.
 
We don't need any more "studies" on the necessity of a DRL. The entire world knows it is necessary, except TTC. There has been several similar studies done in the past 50 years if I am not mistaken, when we needed this line 10 years ago. Spending another $3M on this old topic AGAIN is ridiculous.

Part of that money is Phase 2, figuring out exactly where it's going to go.

Don Mills- Thorncliffe - Pape - King or Queen. Isn't that obvious? What to study over and over again? Relieves Yonge subway and the DVP.

No, it isn't that obvious. I personally think Wellington is the best route if you're doing it as a completely separate line.

But in terms of total best option, I personally think it's linking the DRL with the University-Spadina line and decoupling US from the Yonge line.

It's not as black and white as it seems. I want to put my input into this process, preferably via public consultation.
 
Interesting section here: "Some GO lines will not have sufficient capacity – Many of the GO Rail lines to the downtown will be at capacity, even with the improvements included in the reference network. From the north, passenger demand is forecast to exceed the capacities of the Barrie and Stouffville GO lines. Ridership on the Lakeshore East GO line is estimated to significantly exceed the future capacity of the line."

They then go on to say: "Given the key issues detailed above, the DTRES study considered rapid transit infrastructure alternatives along two primary corridors: a “downtown relief†corridor creating a new travel option for passengers on the Bloor-Danforth subway line to travel into the downtown (DRL); and a rapid transit alternative along the Lakeshore rail corridor providing more rapid transit capacity into the downtown from south Scarborough and south Etobicoke. In each case, the alternatives are envisioned as high-capacity, grade-separated rapid transit similar to a subway service, operating as part of the TTC system with current TTC fares."

Are they expecting that the electrification of the Lakeshore East corridor will not provide sufficient passenger capacity, so the TTC needs to run a duplicate service along the corridor? That seems pretty strange to me, considering that Lakeshore West currently has a higher ridership, but they don't talk about any capacity concerns along that corridor. Theoretically if it's being run as a single through-line the capacity of each corridor would be identical, no? Assuming the same number of electrified tracks are being used, which I'm sure they would be.

I think they are saying that better service on Lakeshore would help Danforth subway and Yonge-Bloor. However, they do not see adeqate movement on electrification.
 
Any one else surprised none of the Exhibits have a station for West Don Lands?

The Bayview/river st and Sherbourne stations will serve the area adequately, especially with the new Cherry st LRT and extended Lakeshore east LRTs, really no need to have Bloor spacing in the southern part of downtown as Streetcar lines are everywhere and provide enough capacity to funnel people onto the subway stations, not to mention each station downtown will cost a tonne.
 

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