archited
Senior Member
^^^^ the decline of retail is happening in every City, sadly.
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- Thread starter Daveography
- Start date
IanO
Superstar
Indeed, but the options in our fair city's core are abysmal and at a level far beyond comparable cities... even Regina has a stronger retail scene in its core.
CaptainBL
Active Member
Sadly, this is objectively true.
Greenspace
Senior Member
^The main malls for Regina and Saskatoon are downtown. Regina's has a H&M, Lululemon, Sephora, Bay, etc. It's not very big but it has the main retailers. Saskatoon's is even better, and the old Sears is being redeveloped.
I thought when the Metro Line was built I would feel more connected to going to Kingsway, but sadly I don't. Imagine if Triple 5 had built WEM downtown, it would have changed the trajectory of all urban development in the city imo.
I thought when the Metro Line was built I would feel more connected to going to Kingsway, but sadly I don't. Imagine if Triple 5 had built WEM downtown, it would have changed the trajectory of all urban development in the city imo.
McEdmonton
New Member
Yea I get that WEM would've taken up a lot of space, but it could've completely changed downtown.
archited
Senior Member
Hudson’s Bay Downsizing Downtown Flagship Stores in Canada [Analysis]
Mixed-use developments will replace standalone flagship Bay stores at a time when some leading global department stores are growing in size with non-retail attractions. An opportunity for creating massive F&B/attraction-heavy Hudson's Bay flagships could be lost as a result.
retail-insider.com
archited
Senior Member
The lessons of WEM can still be applied to downtown -- it just requires an ounce of boldness added to a good measure of "out-of-the-box" thinking.
David A
Senior Member
I don't like to be too negative, but I fully agree with this. I would say abysmal is an accurate statement here.
This leads back to the conundrum, as our downtown turns into a black hole for retail, why would anyone want to live there if they have to drive to the surrounding areas to get almost anything?
A few decades ago, our city decided that getting more people to live downtown was necessary to revitalize it. It has had some success, but I think now the focus of the city needs to focus on getting a healthy variety of retail goods and services back to the downtown area. Without this, those that have moved to live here will find our downtown experience less than satisfying and I suspect many will just eventually leave. We do not want to be left with a bunch of nice, but empty condo buildings to go along with the nice but empty retail space and the nice but empty office space.
David A
Senior Member
Interestingly and to their credit, Triple 5 also built a mall downtown here (Eatons Centre, now City Centre West ). However for a lot of reasons it did not help that much.
One of the few things I am optimistic about now when it comes to downtown retail is that the current owners are looking at making some big changes to this mall.
archited
Senior Member
I have a retail solution... from now on @David A, @IanO and all of their friends must vow to NOT purchase anything more online; they must, instead, go to the relevant retailer downtown and make the same sought after purchase in-store and in-person and, on the hospitality side, they must also frequent a restaurant in the downtown precinct every time they eat out -- and that means actually going to the restaurant. Each time they do so they have to show proof of such purchase to the rest of us so that we know that they are part of the solution and not part of the problem. This way they can start a REAL "let's save the downtown scene" that has true meaning. Of course I am joshing -- but there is something behind this. Let's start a "Save the Downtown Edmonton" club. I know Ian in particular has posted meals that he has enjoyed at one establishment or another -- good-on-ya, Ian -- keep it up! Words like "Amazon" and "Walmart" must be discarded from their own personal lexicons and never mentioned again.
Gronk!
Senior Member
As long as Ian stays away from his usual haunts along the 4th St Promenade, I'm good with that! 
thommyjo
Senior Member
Devils advocate from a gen Z here. Can a downtown thrive without major retail options? I maybe shop once every 4 months? I order stuff online every few weeks. So outside of food, grocery and entertainment (which shopping is often a hybrid with), I don't really care what's downtown. That might just be me. But as university students and under 35s make up a lot of our downtown, idk if shopping will be the biggest draw.
Id say events, leisure, great buildings, car free lifestyle, close to school/work will be bigger sells. WEM got it right with all the extra attractions. I dont think that'd work DT with size/space. But the rec room, sweet concert venues, etc could help.
Id say events, leisure, great buildings, car free lifestyle, close to school/work will be bigger sells. WEM got it right with all the extra attractions. I dont think that'd work DT with size/space. But the rec room, sweet concert venues, etc could help.
thommyjo
Senior Member
I think more people avoid downtown due to cost, crime, streetscape than lack of retail.
Stevey_G
Active Member
Why go downtown when all there’s so many suburban options surrounding the Henday? If I wanna goto a mall other than WEM, the city also as plenty of options for those.
I know I’m beating a dead horse here and I’m sure everyone’s tired me me saying this, but the downtown core has to make itself more accessible, more attractive and needs to offer incentives for people to go downtown.
You know down here in the lower mainland, I can park at Shops for a few hours? Or even use street parking for two hours no problem? Hell, that city provides its residences with parking passes for street parking to make it more inviting for visitors and guests. They’ve figured out what they need to do to fix their downtown and it’s been a roaring success as New West is now one of the most vibrant downtown communities in the lower mainland.
It boils down to amenities, and ease of access to amenities. The two are codependent.
cliffapotamus
Active Member
^^^ seconded! As a laclustre-income-zillenial with an increasingly dim career outlook, I agree very much with the 'shopping isn't a big draw' notion. Myself and almost all of my peers don't value shopping the way I think previous city-builders expected us to. We still like stuff, but not to the extent of "Downtown doesn't have any stores selling Gucci (Holt Renfrew) or a Perfume Maze (the Bay) anymore, I'm not going". That's not why we were going in the first place. as @Stevey_G points out, there are much better options in the city if one simply wants to acquire stuff at a large scale, quickly. Big box stores (and yes, I'm lumping the by into this, because it too is just a big box, just one with a posh logo and high prices) don't give customers experiences. They don't make the buying experience special enough to make it worth visiting, versus shopping online. If you want to have fun, shop local, if you want stuff, cheap and fast, shop amazon.
Downtown's role is to be a place that's pleasant to be in, vibrant and alive, for people who aren't spending money, at least not expressly. When I or my friends choose to go downtown, it's because we can get food (ngl I think food options are still super important) somewhere, then wander around and see cool stuff, like a festival at Churchill Square or the lights at the Legislature at Christmas. It's about experiences, and being in a lively, inviting environment. If my friends or I just wanna shop, we'll drive or bus to West Ed. Stand outside the cordon at the Gucci store and pretend we're fancy. Go to Value Village, and find stuff that's actually in our price range. That's how shopping is done when you're a young person. Or it's online.
I think we need to not fixate on these particular store closures, ie Holt Renfrew or the Bay. as indicators of large trends, yes, but not as huge losses in and of themselves. They were going to become less and less relevant in the City anyways.
I'd argue the better question is, how to we support positive experiences downtown? How do we make it safe again? How do we support small, local, unique businesses that do offer a genuinely positive experience to buying in-person? How do we get Transed to finish up, pack their shit, and move on so we can reopen Churchill Square to festivals? I think a lot of the talk about downtown is focusing on rebuilding a model centred on consumerism that won't find success with younger generations. our current Covid, construction, and houselessness issues are just making that hit all at once.