[kcantor]

I think it's interesting.... because the ones who know DT know how to navigate it, where to go, and what to expect.
This letter is coming from St Albert, their idea of shopping was going to the mall (which makes sense), and the mall is definitely a misrepresentation of the whole DT at this point but the most hurt.

I think it's interesting.... because the ones who know DT know how to navigate it, where to go, and what to expect.
This letter is coming from St Albert, their idea of shopping was going to the mall (which makes sense), and the mall is definitely a misrepresentation of the whole DT at this point but the most hurt.

over and above the fact this person had a poor experience while actually downtown, insulting people who are a large part of the demographic that used to frequent downtown and who will need to be attracted to downtown for it to become the regional draw it used to be isn't how to go about it.

the answer isn't in providing insults, the answer is in providing an experience that is at least pleasurable, not one where they felt they were being treated as a nuisance.

it's not enough to expect visitors to understand and accept why retail spaces are keeping their doors locked full time for the protection of their staff and their inventory, the answer is getting back to the point where retailers don't have to keep their doors locked full time for the protection of their staff and their inventory. wem and southgate and st. albert all offer shopping experiences that don't require that...

 

[Gronk!]

Maybe J.M. Furlong of St. Albert could have rescheduled that dental appointment from Tuesday to any time between Wednesday and Friday. Both the AGA and the RAM are closed on Monday and Tuesday.

I'm glad that pedway closures were raised in that letter. Commerce Place still locks their doors by 6 PM except for the west entrance (this is due to GoodLife Fitness remaining open until 10 PM), while their south escalators and pedway to the Central LRT station are closed for renovations for Lord knows how long. The Don Wheaton YMCA is a pain to get into from the east side, which is one reason why I switched to the forementioned GoodLife. I'm almost certain the pedway between ECC and Sandman is closed by 6 PM. The lower south entrance to Telus Place is still locked permanently, so one has to climb the stairs, cross MacDonald Drive and walk to the south entrance on the main floor.

When oh when will things revert back to pre-pandemic levels? Because I don't see that happening for the foreseeable future.

 

[BASE]

A great point above about a casual visitor vs. a downtown enthusiast. Sure enthusiasts might be able to rationalize certain things or have a better idea of which areas to visit but that shouldn't be the expectation to where the bar is set for a downtown experience.

 

[CaptainBL]

A great point above about a casual visitor vs. a downtown enthusiast. Sure enthusiasts might be able to rationalize certain things or have a better idea of which areas to visit but that shouldn't be the expectation to where the bar is set for a downtown experience.

Perhaps now we have an even better understanding of those who aren't even casual visitors but are out of town visitors / investors who have recently had negative things to say or negative experiences about with downtown.

Maybe those groups aren't sharing their unfortunately negative experiences because they are big meanie heads but because they come to town and truly do have an unfortunate experience compared to where they are coming from or compared to their expectations for a city such as Edmonton.

 

[TAS]

I think $1million was recently provided to EDBA for downtown and few other million to city? How much would it cost to lease out most of city centre mall and some of the empty CRUs around downtown for one year? The city could negotiate a pretty good rate by taking up most of the mall, especially since it's virtually empty anyway.. And then those spaces could be provided to a bunch of pop-ups - maybe a panel to select the vendors from those that apply. But make it a quick process. Perhaps they pay a %of their profits back to city to help continue to fund this.
That would create a lot of stores and activate our streets better, which would increase traffic, safety and better support existing restaurants and businesses in the area.

 

[David A]

Inaction and denalism of the provincial government and the opposition? Inaction and denialism of the city? Inaction and denialsim of some downtown property owners? Inaction and denialism of the people who know about these issues and call it out and don't really do anything about it beyond that?

I guess we could all write letters to the EJ about the lack of shopping downtown and other concerns, all of it is true and I think fairly well documented. Same with this particular thread - well documented. We're all pretty aware I think - but also complacent and inactive?

Yes, yes, yes. We didn't get into such a deep hole just due to one party or problem, there is a heck of a lot of blame to go around.

Unfortunately governments tend to be reactive and not proactive, so you usually have to put a lot of public pressure to shame them into doing anything useful. For some people that means letters to the EJ, others posting here and elsewhere, others might want to write or call their city councilors or provincial officials to demand more be done.

Not to put everything on the city, but I will not be voting for my downtown councilor if the city's fairly complacent approach continues. She needs to step up now.

 

[David A]

Perhaps now we have an even better understanding of those who aren't even casual visitors but are out of town visitors / investors who have recently had negative things to say or negative experiences about with downtown.

Maybe those groups aren't sharing their unfortunately negative experiences because they are big meanie heads but because they come to town and truly do have an unfortunate experience compared to where they are coming from or compared to their expectations for a city such as Edmonton.

Oh those silly foolish people from out of town, they expect a normal city with a downtown will a reasonable level of goods and services available, like most other cities in the country.

 

[kcantor]

I think $1million was recently provided to EDBA for downtown and few other million to city? How much would it cost to lease out most of city centre mall and some of the empty CRUs around downtown for one year? The city could negotiate a pretty good rate by taking up most of the mall, especially since it's virtually empty anyway.. And then those spaces could be provided to a bunch of pop-ups - maybe a panel to select the vendors from those that apply. But make it a quick process. Perhaps they pay a %of their profits back to city to help continue to fund this.
That would create a lot of stores and activate our streets better, which would increase traffic, safety and better support existing restaurants and businesses in the area.

city centre mall currently has more than 300,000 sf of space available and they have been actively trying to acquire short term as well as long-term tenants ( https://edmontoncitycentre.com/short-term-specialty-leasing/ ).

how much would it cost to lease it out? opex (that's expenses only, not rent) assuming $20 psf on that 300,000 sf would be approximately $500,000 per month...

 

[TAS]

city centre mall currently has more than 300,000 sf of space available and they have been actively trying to acquire short term as well as long-term tenants ( https://edmontoncitycentre.com/short-term-specialty-leasing/ ).

how much would it cost to lease it out? opex (that's expenses only, not rent) assuming $20 psf on that 300,000 sf would be approximately $500,000 per month...

Yikes - that's huge, although I would still rather contribute to that then orphan wells, haha

But not including the two levels of the old bay for instance would cut that down a fair amount. Still that's major bucks.

I wouldn't mind if the west section of the mall along on 103 Street facing the boardwalk restaurants across the street could be converted to another 5 or 6 restaurant spaces. Would be a nice area.

 

[IanO]

Maybe J.M. Furlong of St. Albert could have rescheduled that dental appointment from Tuesday to any time between Wednesday and Friday. Both the AGA and the RAM are closed on Monday and Tuesday.

I'm glad that pedway closures were raised in that letter. Commerce Place still locks their doors by 6 PM except for the west entrance (this is due to GoodLife Fitness remaining open until 10 PM), while their south escalators and pedway to the Central LRT station are closed for renovations for Lord knows how long. The Don Wheaton YMCA is a pain to get into from the east side, which is one reason why I switched to the forementioned GoodLife. I'm almost certain the pedway between ECC and Sandman is closed by 6 PM. The lower south entrance to Telus Place is still locked permanently, so one has to climb the stairs, cross MacDonald Drive and walk to the south entrance on the main floor.

When oh when will things revert back to pre-pandemic levels? Because I don't see that happening for the foreseeable future.

It's not me, it's you.

Great messaging YEGDT.

 

[TAS]

It's not me, it's you.

Great messaging YEGDT.

Not everything is nor needs to be open 7 days a week.

 

[IanO]

I don't disagree, but if you reference my initial post on this letter, YEGDT feels closed, cold, uninviting and unsafe and has a massive hill to climb.

That 'tourist' represents a way forward and honestly should be brought in, along with others, for an interview by the DRC, et al. to learn more, work to address some of those specific hurdles/issues, share more about how to plan your trip 'properly'/be informed and how to work with various partners to have that exact type of visitor experience something much different come summer.

 

[IanO]

SO happy to see something going back in there.
---

Reference ID: Job No 464405859-002
Description: To install (2) Fascia On-Premises Sign(s) (HANAN'S KITCHEN)
Location: 10625 - 99 AVENUE NW
Plan NB Blk 6 Lots 39-40
Applicant: 979629 ALBERTA LTD O/A KEN'S SIGNS
Status: Intake Review
Create Date: 2/16/2023 2:50:31 PM
Neighbourhood: DOWNTOWN

 

[CaptainBL]

I think $1million was recently provided to EDBA for downtown and few other million to city? How much would it cost to lease out most of city centre mall and some of the empty CRUs around downtown for one year? The city could negotiate a pretty good rate by taking up most of the mall, especially since it's virtually empty anyway.. And then those spaces could be provided to a bunch of pop-ups - maybe a panel to select the vendors from those that apply. But make it a quick process. Perhaps they pay a %of their profits back to city to help continue to fund this.
That would create a lot of stores and activate our streets better, which would increase traffic, safety and better support existing restaurants and businesses in the area.

This is not a great use of city funds, at all.

$1MM or however much will last like 2 months of leasing/opex costs, will go right into the pockets of the mall owners for those two months, subsidizes a couple pop ups shops selling candles and calendars, then what are those shops going to do once that $1MM evaporates after two months? Are you expecting people to travel downtown to buy candles and such from those pop up shops that they could get at literally any other farmers market / pop up market beyond the two months?

You need sustainable, constant foot traffic. Potential better uses of funds, or better strategies to get foot traffic downtown:

1. Continue incentives for residential development (this was successful last year in deferring tax payments of residential developments) - means no cash is leaving the City's hands as tax revenue is deferred rather than donated
2. Engage a leasing party to come up with a specific strategy for recruiting companies downtown. For example, there are many smaller Edmonton companies that have their offices in places like 170st or on the South Side with leases coming due. Could the city entice these companies to move their suburban offices downtown?
3. Use those funds to put out an RFP for a reputable consulting firm (BCG, EY, McKinsey just for example) to come up with a downtown focused strategy that will engage with and recruit business to downtown.
4. Or, simply use those funds to achieve the basics like having a couple more people picking up garbage more frequently or having side walk sweepers out more frequently.

Those solutions range from more elaborate to basic with the intention of creating sustainable bodies downtown.

Handing out $$$ to cover a lease for a couple months for pop up shops is not a good use of funds at all.

 

[Gronk!]

^^ I miss K & M Grocery. They had large lineups during lunch time, but I can't remember what they served!