YEG imagineer
Active Member
This is where the gondola was planned to connect with the building underneath MacDonald Drive.
|
|
|
- Thread starter Daveography
- Start date
IanO
Superstar
In the 18 years we have existed, our association has never had to budget for or be responsible for that stretch.
It's a primary gateway to the core and an indicator of what to expect.
Bravo and welcome to Edmonton.
kcantor
Senior Member
as one of the first to complain about landlords and retailers not looking after public spaces and sidewalks in front of their buildings and storefronts, i wouldn’t complain about getting a free ride for 18 years…
IanO
Superstar
It's a major entranceway/gateway into the core across a sidewalk that has been cut by the City each and every year until now.
We will be taking care of it though.
We will be taking care of it though.
Last edited:
IanO
Superstar
Congratulations to DECL/DECA on its 20th anniversary! Thank you for being the voice for Downtown residents.
thommyjo
Senior Member
Wanted to share some reflections from another week of work in Vancouver and for Edmonton’s downtown.
1. Greenery. Oliver does this quite well, but our downtown struggles. There are massive trees, vines, boulevards, etc everywhere here. Fronts of buildings are so well done. How can we improve this with our climate/winters? DBA/COE grants for landscaping/greenery?
2. Water features. Lots of water fountains and features in plazas and parks. The white noise is nice, they add a lot of beauty. Obviously not as feasible in our climate, but are there alternatives that give a similar outcome? Art that’s more than static/silent.
3. People & traffic. There is just a lot, in most areas, most of the day. There must be 10x of both vs our downtown. People complain about traffic in downtown, but there honestly isn’t any. 103ave is always dead, most streets outside of 8/9am and 4/5pm are empty of cars. On a block there’s always 5-25 people walking vs 1–5 at best in Edmonton. We all know this already, but we simply need significantly more residents in the core. Would we be better off seeing The Quarters becoming like the Boston seaport, or Vancouver Olympic village vs high rises? 4-8 story buildings that more quickly cover the sqft and add thousands of residents in a few short years. It’s not like there aren’t 50 other lots big towers could still go on. Have we over zoned the quarters to be too big height/density wise?
4. Safety/addiction. I saw a guy yelling in north van lonsdale by the seabus. A lady harassing others at waterfront station. I’ve been asked for money 6 times the last 3 days. There are people sleeping here and there and drug use in some alleys. But it’s 1-2% of the experience in most areas. ….then there’s east hastings. Even though I see it a half dozen times a year…it’s just wild. So sad. Thousands of homeless, blocks of completely abandoned buildings. Garbage everywhere. Last night at 10pm I bussed through and there were 3 different areas with 5+ EMS/police/fire vehicles responding to ODs, crime, etc. the worst parts of Edmonton are the best parts of east hastings. BUT, we still shouldn’t accept it and must fight becoming like this. I do think though, it says a lot that so much of Vancouver’s downtown is so vibrant yet there’s so much homelessness. I think it’s just the separation. There’s 10+ blocks between CBD and east hastings getting really bad. And then most residential is south and west of the CBD, even farther. Our CBD is too intertwined with the homelessness. Of course we need to find long term solutions and supports for the unhoused. But we also need to stop the drift of drug use and vandalism from crossing 97st and 105ave. I know that’s not helpful to those in the N and E or downtown, but if we “have” to concede part of our city to being run down and regularly seeing drug use, it needs to be gravel parking lots and those areas, and not jasper ave/103st/102ave, etc. we’ve let our homelessness problems feel bigger than they should because there are impacts from it on every block. Instead, I think we need to work on consolidating where these issues are while we find adequate shelter space, housing, and wrap around supports. My friends grandma lives on railtown MUP and doesn’t feel safe walking to save on foods on 109st anymore. That’s gotta be fixed for example. The LRT stations must be safe. Public library, main streets, Churchill, let’s ensure our city’s other vulnerable people are safe too (kids, seniors, women).
5. Narrow roads. So many of the streets are simply 2 lanes plus parking. I think we should do that basically everywhere outside of jasper/104, 109 and 105/101st maybe? Use it to make awesome boulevards with planters and trees, to expand sidewalks, etc. reduces future asphalt maintenance and makes our streets less dead/bare.
6. Shorten light rotations. Everything here is 20-30secs max. It means you never wait long as a pedestrian or driver. We have intersections with 60+ seconds to cross as a pedestrian. Or drivers hate scrambles…but they’re so long because the roads have too many lanes ironically. We should have more and quicker rotations.
7. Transit. It’s just a lot better here. I have a compass card, but not an ARC sadly. We should get better shelters going, better signage (the rapid routes here have digital bus stop signs with times till arrival and route maps). The buses are all suuuuuper clean. No garbage, and even floors are just clean from dirt/spills/dust. I think this helps with bodies on streets too…everyone is starting and ending with a few blocks of walking vs just LRT into pedways or driving into parkades.
8. Bikes/scooters. I actually don’t like Mobi/Shaw. I think our pay per use private options beat Vancouver here. I hate that I can’t grab a single use bike while here. Although a true bike share is definitely needed in Edmonton soon. Montreal and Toronto are a better example imo than Vancouver. Bike lanes are getting better in Van. Still lots of areas without though, but they’re high quality. Ours are starting to deteriorate and need improvements. So many hills here though. Edmonton really has an advantage being a flat city.
Overall, I think we just need to really concentrate our efforts in a few areas to make them shine. Keep them clean, make them beautiful, get them busy, etc. a great 104st, ice district, Churchill, and jasper ave from 97-109st feel like the highest potential. Stop investing in more spread out ways that reduce the felt experiences. We’re too pocket-y. Give incentives and grants to accelerate the build out of our best places. Then also fix the LRT asap. Short term it’s gotta be safety and cleanliness. Power washing, constant cleaning, nice, quiet jazz like music, improved lighting. Then entrances at street levels should be redone in a few areas downtown in the next few years too. Make the LRT experience awesome and reliable, even if drug and homelessness issues continue elsewhere, we can’t concede the train.
That’s all my rambles. I love Edmonton and think we can make some real strides this decade. Vancouver both shows me the work we need to do, but also how they’ve still created an amazing downtown, despite the other social issues they’re working on. We can’t see a great downtown as dependent on fixing all drug/houseless issues I think. I worry our civic leaders have taken that view…”downtown is unsafe cause the province won’t fix housing/shelters”. Sure, that’ll help. But we can still have a great downtown.
1. Greenery. Oliver does this quite well, but our downtown struggles. There are massive trees, vines, boulevards, etc everywhere here. Fronts of buildings are so well done. How can we improve this with our climate/winters? DBA/COE grants for landscaping/greenery?
2. Water features. Lots of water fountains and features in plazas and parks. The white noise is nice, they add a lot of beauty. Obviously not as feasible in our climate, but are there alternatives that give a similar outcome? Art that’s more than static/silent.
3. People & traffic. There is just a lot, in most areas, most of the day. There must be 10x of both vs our downtown. People complain about traffic in downtown, but there honestly isn’t any. 103ave is always dead, most streets outside of 8/9am and 4/5pm are empty of cars. On a block there’s always 5-25 people walking vs 1–5 at best in Edmonton. We all know this already, but we simply need significantly more residents in the core. Would we be better off seeing The Quarters becoming like the Boston seaport, or Vancouver Olympic village vs high rises? 4-8 story buildings that more quickly cover the sqft and add thousands of residents in a few short years. It’s not like there aren’t 50 other lots big towers could still go on. Have we over zoned the quarters to be too big height/density wise?
4. Safety/addiction. I saw a guy yelling in north van lonsdale by the seabus. A lady harassing others at waterfront station. I’ve been asked for money 6 times the last 3 days. There are people sleeping here and there and drug use in some alleys. But it’s 1-2% of the experience in most areas. ….then there’s east hastings. Even though I see it a half dozen times a year…it’s just wild. So sad. Thousands of homeless, blocks of completely abandoned buildings. Garbage everywhere. Last night at 10pm I bussed through and there were 3 different areas with 5+ EMS/police/fire vehicles responding to ODs, crime, etc. the worst parts of Edmonton are the best parts of east hastings. BUT, we still shouldn’t accept it and must fight becoming like this. I do think though, it says a lot that so much of Vancouver’s downtown is so vibrant yet there’s so much homelessness. I think it’s just the separation. There’s 10+ blocks between CBD and east hastings getting really bad. And then most residential is south and west of the CBD, even farther. Our CBD is too intertwined with the homelessness. Of course we need to find long term solutions and supports for the unhoused. But we also need to stop the drift of drug use and vandalism from crossing 97st and 105ave. I know that’s not helpful to those in the N and E or downtown, but if we “have” to concede part of our city to being run down and regularly seeing drug use, it needs to be gravel parking lots and those areas, and not jasper ave/103st/102ave, etc. we’ve let our homelessness problems feel bigger than they should because there are impacts from it on every block. Instead, I think we need to work on consolidating where these issues are while we find adequate shelter space, housing, and wrap around supports. My friends grandma lives on railtown MUP and doesn’t feel safe walking to save on foods on 109st anymore. That’s gotta be fixed for example. The LRT stations must be safe. Public library, main streets, Churchill, let’s ensure our city’s other vulnerable people are safe too (kids, seniors, women).
5. Narrow roads. So many of the streets are simply 2 lanes plus parking. I think we should do that basically everywhere outside of jasper/104, 109 and 105/101st maybe? Use it to make awesome boulevards with planters and trees, to expand sidewalks, etc. reduces future asphalt maintenance and makes our streets less dead/bare.
6. Shorten light rotations. Everything here is 20-30secs max. It means you never wait long as a pedestrian or driver. We have intersections with 60+ seconds to cross as a pedestrian. Or drivers hate scrambles…but they’re so long because the roads have too many lanes ironically. We should have more and quicker rotations.
7. Transit. It’s just a lot better here. I have a compass card, but not an ARC sadly. We should get better shelters going, better signage (the rapid routes here have digital bus stop signs with times till arrival and route maps). The buses are all suuuuuper clean. No garbage, and even floors are just clean from dirt/spills/dust. I think this helps with bodies on streets too…everyone is starting and ending with a few blocks of walking vs just LRT into pedways or driving into parkades.
8. Bikes/scooters. I actually don’t like Mobi/Shaw. I think our pay per use private options beat Vancouver here. I hate that I can’t grab a single use bike while here. Although a true bike share is definitely needed in Edmonton soon. Montreal and Toronto are a better example imo than Vancouver. Bike lanes are getting better in Van. Still lots of areas without though, but they’re high quality. Ours are starting to deteriorate and need improvements. So many hills here though. Edmonton really has an advantage being a flat city.
Overall, I think we just need to really concentrate our efforts in a few areas to make them shine. Keep them clean, make them beautiful, get them busy, etc. a great 104st, ice district, Churchill, and jasper ave from 97-109st feel like the highest potential. Stop investing in more spread out ways that reduce the felt experiences. We’re too pocket-y. Give incentives and grants to accelerate the build out of our best places. Then also fix the LRT asap. Short term it’s gotta be safety and cleanliness. Power washing, constant cleaning, nice, quiet jazz like music, improved lighting. Then entrances at street levels should be redone in a few areas downtown in the next few years too. Make the LRT experience awesome and reliable, even if drug and homelessness issues continue elsewhere, we can’t concede the train.
That’s all my rambles. I love Edmonton and think we can make some real strides this decade. Vancouver both shows me the work we need to do, but also how they’ve still created an amazing downtown, despite the other social issues they’re working on. We can’t see a great downtown as dependent on fixing all drug/houseless issues I think. I worry our civic leaders have taken that view…”downtown is unsafe cause the province won’t fix housing/shelters”. Sure, that’ll help. But we can still have a great downtown.
Greenspace
Senior Member
Aisle24 opens today on 104 Street, first location in Western Canada. They are planning 25 stores in Edmonton and Calgary according to this story.
archited
Senior Member
It's a small part of the retail solution.
dunno
Active Member
@thommyjo
I was also recently in Vancouver. It's sad that Canada's most attractive, vibrant cities are so overpriced. I don't know how the working class does it out there and how there's so much construction but only for the affluent. Like, I understand but it just doesn't make sense why there isn't much stronger pushback against the housing crisis there and in Toronto. If I could, I'd jump ship yesterday because Edmonton isn't amazing for an urbanist. Sorry.
I know I've had similar discussions on here about this stuff, and I think a lot of the boosters try to see the positive and therefore my negativity is jarring. I get why that can be. I used to be a lot more of a booster about this city, and have spent over 15 years trying to support in the ways that I could ensuring Edmonton becomes more walkable, bikable, transit-centric, dense, and vibrant. But I've come to realize Edmonton's never going to be Vancouver. And in some ways, that's great, but on the urban front, it's depressing.
Everything moves so slow here, although it is better than 20-25 years ago, I'll give Edmonton that. And I get some things take time, but I look at the strides that the competition has made and it's a bit bleak. I understand Vancouver's bigger, older, and in a much more mild/desirable climate than Edmonton (though that last bit might change in 50 years), but as I think you're doing, I do think there's things we can learn from when looking at Vancouver. Frankly, for how much Edmontonians tend to visit the Lower Mainland and come back awestruck by it, I'm flabbergasted that the city's tenets don't rub off on us more. An even more realistic comparison is probably Calgary. Similar size, age, and demographics. Aside from chinooks, a similar climate. They have multiple vibrant neighbourhoods/main streets - 17th Ave, Mission, Kensington, Stephen Ave, and Inglewood. We just have Whyte Ave. The "in transition" next rung of neighbourhoods are a lot better too - Bridgeland, the East Village, Crescent Heights, and Marda Loop. What do we got? A 124th Street perpetually stuck almost being something but always falling short. Our biggest recent triumph is Ritchie, which is just some strip malls with lipstick on them, like a severely downgraded Marda Loop. Alberta Ave and 104th Street have yet to launch and McCauley's gotten worse. At least we have the Highlands, but it serves a different purpose than Whyte or Stephen. The quality of their new public art, architecture, and public realm tends to be nicer too - the stuff that makes people want to stroll and linger. We have pieces of this - Paul Kane, Borden Park, Ice District Plaza, but they're few and far between.
Something that's really great about the Skytrain and Rapidbus system in Metro Vancouver is how much regular stuff is super accessible. Even just going to the movies is a breeze. There's multiplexes right by Skytrain stations Downtown, Chinatown, Brentwood, New West, Metrotown, and Marine Drive. So if a movie isn't playing near you, you don't necessarily need a car or a slow bus. Edmonton has... the Landmark Downtown. If you want any options, aside from Metro Cinema in Garneau, you're gonna wanna drive. It's just one thing, but highlights how much Edmonton makes people drive to do normal things. Our buses are poorly timed for transfers, too, especially since the bus redesign while our LRT can seem sketchier.
I think the honest reason why we aren't more like Vancouver, let alone peers like Calgary or Ottawa, is the culture. This city acts like a staging ground to make a quick buck while having a pied-a-terre in Penticton and spending a week each winter in Palm Springs. People live here, but those that have the means don't have an interest in positively making the city better, while those that don't are here for the cheap suburban boxes. This city's culture is Boston Pizza and West Edmonton Mall, not Cactus Club by the beach or Metrotown-style TOD. Our idea of a cool, sleek downtown shopping district is Brewery District, a development which literally turns it's back on the neighbourhood for cars. You talk about just needing more people living downtown, but Oliver already has high population density - you need more than just a bunch of people. Whyte Ave has less people and is far more vibrant because it's a destination. Same reason WEM or Southgate are busy - they draw people from further afield.
More bleakly, the reason we only have Whyte Ave is because all of the people who do want a vibrant urban neighbourhood coalesce to support one area because there's not enough demand to make 124th or 104th or Jasper or 97th or Norwood or 118th into anything quite as vibrant. Maybe that's a bit dramatic, because people are absolutely living in or supporting amenities on 124th, for example, and probably want to see it succeed even more, but it's not enough to push things far. Edmonton's culture is suburban and it isn't even pretending like it isn't like Calgary and Ottawa are. I wish it weren't, and I've tried to push back against that deeply ingrained mindset, but Edmonton's gonna do what Edmonton's gonna do, is my view on it at this point. It's why most people with any sort of urbanist inkling, if they can, move to Calgary, Vancouver, Toronto, or Montreal early. This city doesn't cut it, as much as I wish it did, and it's gonna take a while for the culture to change, if it ever truly does.
But hopefully I'm wrong.
I was also recently in Vancouver. It's sad that Canada's most attractive, vibrant cities are so overpriced. I don't know how the working class does it out there and how there's so much construction but only for the affluent. Like, I understand but it just doesn't make sense why there isn't much stronger pushback against the housing crisis there and in Toronto. If I could, I'd jump ship yesterday because Edmonton isn't amazing for an urbanist. Sorry.
I know I've had similar discussions on here about this stuff, and I think a lot of the boosters try to see the positive and therefore my negativity is jarring. I get why that can be. I used to be a lot more of a booster about this city, and have spent over 15 years trying to support in the ways that I could ensuring Edmonton becomes more walkable, bikable, transit-centric, dense, and vibrant. But I've come to realize Edmonton's never going to be Vancouver. And in some ways, that's great, but on the urban front, it's depressing.
Everything moves so slow here, although it is better than 20-25 years ago, I'll give Edmonton that. And I get some things take time, but I look at the strides that the competition has made and it's a bit bleak. I understand Vancouver's bigger, older, and in a much more mild/desirable climate than Edmonton (though that last bit might change in 50 years), but as I think you're doing, I do think there's things we can learn from when looking at Vancouver. Frankly, for how much Edmontonians tend to visit the Lower Mainland and come back awestruck by it, I'm flabbergasted that the city's tenets don't rub off on us more. An even more realistic comparison is probably Calgary. Similar size, age, and demographics. Aside from chinooks, a similar climate. They have multiple vibrant neighbourhoods/main streets - 17th Ave, Mission, Kensington, Stephen Ave, and Inglewood. We just have Whyte Ave. The "in transition" next rung of neighbourhoods are a lot better too - Bridgeland, the East Village, Crescent Heights, and Marda Loop. What do we got? A 124th Street perpetually stuck almost being something but always falling short. Our biggest recent triumph is Ritchie, which is just some strip malls with lipstick on them, like a severely downgraded Marda Loop. Alberta Ave and 104th Street have yet to launch and McCauley's gotten worse. At least we have the Highlands, but it serves a different purpose than Whyte or Stephen. The quality of their new public art, architecture, and public realm tends to be nicer too - the stuff that makes people want to stroll and linger. We have pieces of this - Paul Kane, Borden Park, Ice District Plaza, but they're few and far between.
Something that's really great about the Skytrain and Rapidbus system in Metro Vancouver is how much regular stuff is super accessible. Even just going to the movies is a breeze. There's multiplexes right by Skytrain stations Downtown, Chinatown, Brentwood, New West, Metrotown, and Marine Drive. So if a movie isn't playing near you, you don't necessarily need a car or a slow bus. Edmonton has... the Landmark Downtown. If you want any options, aside from Metro Cinema in Garneau, you're gonna wanna drive. It's just one thing, but highlights how much Edmonton makes people drive to do normal things. Our buses are poorly timed for transfers, too, especially since the bus redesign while our LRT can seem sketchier.
I think the honest reason why we aren't more like Vancouver, let alone peers like Calgary or Ottawa, is the culture. This city acts like a staging ground to make a quick buck while having a pied-a-terre in Penticton and spending a week each winter in Palm Springs. People live here, but those that have the means don't have an interest in positively making the city better, while those that don't are here for the cheap suburban boxes. This city's culture is Boston Pizza and West Edmonton Mall, not Cactus Club by the beach or Metrotown-style TOD. Our idea of a cool, sleek downtown shopping district is Brewery District, a development which literally turns it's back on the neighbourhood for cars. You talk about just needing more people living downtown, but Oliver already has high population density - you need more than just a bunch of people. Whyte Ave has less people and is far more vibrant because it's a destination. Same reason WEM or Southgate are busy - they draw people from further afield.
More bleakly, the reason we only have Whyte Ave is because all of the people who do want a vibrant urban neighbourhood coalesce to support one area because there's not enough demand to make 124th or 104th or Jasper or 97th or Norwood or 118th into anything quite as vibrant. Maybe that's a bit dramatic, because people are absolutely living in or supporting amenities on 124th, for example, and probably want to see it succeed even more, but it's not enough to push things far. Edmonton's culture is suburban and it isn't even pretending like it isn't like Calgary and Ottawa are. I wish it weren't, and I've tried to push back against that deeply ingrained mindset, but Edmonton's gonna do what Edmonton's gonna do, is my view on it at this point. It's why most people with any sort of urbanist inkling, if they can, move to Calgary, Vancouver, Toronto, or Montreal early. This city doesn't cut it, as much as I wish it did, and it's gonna take a while for the culture to change, if it ever truly does.
But hopefully I'm wrong.
Last edited:
kcantor
Senior Member
^
i’m also hopeful you’re wrong although i’m not as hopeful as i used to be…
the first time we moved here, the population of greater edmonton was under 556,000. it’s now 1,544,000.
we have tripled our population adding a million people in the process!
what we have built - or not built - as that took place was and remains a reflection of choice, consciously or unconsciously, whether we’re talking about built form or transit or anything else, because we have clearly had the opportunity to do better.
edmonton has some truly wonderful attributes but one of it’s biggest failings has been a refusal to recognize that other places do some things better than we do.
our constant striving to implement “made in edmonton solutions” - whether they’re the best solutions or not - from community leagues to streetscapes to transit and parking software to not figuring out where airports should or shouldn’t be or how to get to them may make for a great tag line but ultimately mires us in mediocrity.
we seem to regulate not to encourage and enable but to control while at the same time avoiding any accountability.
the interesting thing is that deeply ingrained mindset you note is, i think, much shallower than you think. as noted above, our region has grown substantially in what for a city is a relatively short period of time. that tells me that most of the population is quite prepared to accept change - change and opportunity is what brought us here in the first place.
it’s high time we figured out how to enable that and not stifle it.
i’m also hopeful you’re wrong although i’m not as hopeful as i used to be…
the first time we moved here, the population of greater edmonton was under 556,000. it’s now 1,544,000.
we have tripled our population adding a million people in the process!
what we have built - or not built - as that took place was and remains a reflection of choice, consciously or unconsciously, whether we’re talking about built form or transit or anything else, because we have clearly had the opportunity to do better.
edmonton has some truly wonderful attributes but one of it’s biggest failings has been a refusal to recognize that other places do some things better than we do.
our constant striving to implement “made in edmonton solutions” - whether they’re the best solutions or not - from community leagues to streetscapes to transit and parking software to not figuring out where airports should or shouldn’t be or how to get to them may make for a great tag line but ultimately mires us in mediocrity.
we seem to regulate not to encourage and enable but to control while at the same time avoiding any accountability.
the interesting thing is that deeply ingrained mindset you note is, i think, much shallower than you think. as noted above, our region has grown substantially in what for a city is a relatively short period of time. that tells me that most of the population is quite prepared to accept change - change and opportunity is what brought us here in the first place.
it’s high time we figured out how to enable that and not stifle it.
Last edited:
tkoe_
Active Member
Sometimes I think it is a bit like the frog in the pot that doesn't notice the water slowly getting hotter. Edmonton has a long way to go, but over the past 10 years since I moved here it has made huge leaps. I think the real tragedy was the pandemic that paused a lot of the momentum. Thankfully that now seems to be returning and central neighbourhoods are getting more interesting, denser and more diverse. Edmonton won't ever be Vancouver, but at the same time Vancouver won't ever be Edmonton.
For those that want urbanism now, go out there and get it. For me, I still think Edmonton is an excellent bet.
For those that want urbanism now, go out there and get it. For me, I still think Edmonton is an excellent bet.
dunno
Active Member
I do agree there was a lot of momentum, I mentioned too the improvements that have happened in the last while, which really ramped up in the 2010s. A lot of that was squashed by the pandemic and while there's been a bounce back, it's nowhere near the level of other major Canadian cities. We still have the weakest downtown of the 6 major CMAs, with a vibrancy more akin to Winnipeg. But that's been the case for a long time, and things like retail were trending downwards even before the pandemic. The pandemic just fastened the process.
15 years ago, I thought 124th Street or 104th Street would've wound up as Whyte Ave alternates by 2023, while I thought Alberta Ave might be where 124th is now. But it's not, despite all the investments. And it doesn't have to be this slow but in Edmonton there doesn't seem to be the same drive as in Vancouver, Calgary, Ottawa, etc. Even some positive things have been marred with scars - Stantec's falling glass, the Valley Line telenovella, meanwhile I'm a bit worried that the new Warehouse Park won't live up to expectations. Too many prominent corners are now gaping holes due to flaky developers. At least the Hat at Strathcona is finally starting. As much as Whyte/Strathcona is our most complete urban area, it could still be so much more.
Unfortunately somewhere like Vancouver would be tough because it's got San Francisco prices with Bratislava wages. I don't get how people who aren't at least upper middle class make it. Toronto has better wages but still expensive. Montreal is French-first. There's not a lot of options in Canada, really, and so if you don't want to be house poor or learn another language, somewhere like Edmonton is a good spot. Maybe Calgary would be the best bang for buck at the moment, but Edmonton's main allure is that it's decent and affordable.
Maybe steam will pick things up, though. Trends don't tend to last. Maybe in 20 years, this stuff will be done
- Blatchford build out
- Bike lanes everywhere as planned
- Higher architectural quality
- the Valley Line done, Metro Line to Castle Downs, Capital to Heritage Valley, with another LRT or BRT line planned or built for Whyte-87 Ave
- Regional express rail down the CPR corridor from Downtown to YEG via Strathcona and 23rd Ave
- Intercity rail to Calgary/Banff
- Quarters improvements
- Better quality museum exhibitions
- A more vibrant 124th St, 104th St, and Jasper Ave
- Rebuilt and densified 104 Ave, including MacEwan campus expansions
- Bonnie Doon TOD mid-way done
And that would be great. But 20 years is a while and people who don't want to struggle with rent in Vancouver shouldn't have to deal with this big box town, waiting out on the hope things will be better at some indeterminate future point.
Gronk!
Senior Member
Clandestine is still not open.
Neither is Reign.
There was a huge lineup at Illusion nightclub on Jasper Ave near 109 St so there is a demand for nightlife.
Neither is Reign.
There was a huge lineup at Illusion nightclub on Jasper Ave near 109 St so there is a demand for nightlife.
David A
Senior Member
That last line resonates for me. There are complainers and doers. Some of the complainers need to become doers.
David A
Senior Member
Your third paragraph nicely summarizes how those much bigger cities some people often put forward as so great also have big difficult to solve problems. For example, I visited Montreal last fall and loved it - a really nice big city and not too expensive. However, my French is really not good enough for me to work there and may never be.
Maybe we are actually more fortunate, our problems are not quite so unsolveable, we are just dealing with them slowly so they appear that way, but sometime the tortoise does quite well in the end.