[Ed007Toronto]

The mayor does have his one cent campaign running. Its not like he's not trying.

 

[roch5220]

I wouldn't blame Miller, maybe because I support is long term vision of street level ROW streetcars, but also because he doesn't hold the purse strings. What is needed is GTA MPs and MPPs to join together, bi-partisanly, and speak up for the needs of the area, instead of hanging out, and waiting to move up the pecking order to a cabinet spot.

Private partnerships, wow, thats great for high order corridors where there is a lot of riders, but it does nothing to provide comprehensive services to all routes.

 

[roch5220]

Also, I'm sure the city/TTC was in a holding pattern after the court battle with SOS or whatever that anti-stclair row group was. Now since the city is in the clear, I'm sure the next expansion plan will now focus clearly on ROWs. No use planning until all legal obstacles have been resolved.

 

[socialwoe]

which was focused on rail corridors as opposed to the entire relief component of the plan, both relief to the Yonge and Bloor lines and relief to all the busy neighbourhoods it passes through.

A significant portion of the DRL would be in the rail corridors duh :rolleyes ! Tunneling 10-12 kms up Pape-Overlea-Don Mills must sound like an inexpensive thing to tackle for a city strapped for cash as well I reckon.

Like Steeles West?

Every bus route in the NW currently terminating at a non-discript on-street loop near Steeles can be shuttled into this station, allowing bi-directional subway accessibility to bus commuters. Plus locally there's an Olympic sanctioned stadium, large cluster of apt buildings, proximity to several York buildings and the Black Creek Pioneer Village which can be revitialized as a tourist destination. See what happens when you look at the big picture :lol ?

Go ahead and find one time that I said it would be "bad." On the contrary, it's a wonderful fantasy, only I know that its merits are wildly exaggerated and that, given current circumstances, our money is better spent elsewhere.

You did but I won't waste the time or energy to prove it. Your "oh but the condo-dwellers need a link too, CBD is better served from this middle of nowhere spit" attitude speaks for itself. The merits of Queen Street are not exaggerated in the least. I even played down it's benefits in prior posts to make you not seem so stupid.

The only current circumstance you could be referring to is Scarborough's, well you know what, Queen has LRT that's unsuitable for the heavier demands the core warrants, Scarborough begs for subways it can't fill (find a full train east of Coxwell if you dare), why the overreaching and underachieving? Lets help the bigger population first and foremost, instead of dead-stalling all possible funds into counter-initutive 2-stop extension dreck.

LRT's on suburban roads that are wide enough like we have in Scarb./Etob./NY are great but to simply rely on LRT tech as the back-bone of an already damaged system is not the way to go

Suburbs which only have demand in pockets must get better than LRTs? LRTs are more reliable than buses and only cost a fraction of subways. Do you know how far the $3 billion for VCC could've gone if the money were used on LRT network? Far- Finch Hydro Corridor right across the city, Front St Extension, Kingston-Eglinton, Sheppard conversion and expension from Weston Rd to Markham, possibly Neilson, etc. The way things are prioritized explains why we get so little and wait long for it.

Toronto the richest city in Canada which is one of the richest countries in the world, absolutely no excuse to be crying poor when it comes to future and current vital infrastructure needs

Yes but most of that wealth isn't in public hands, it's private orgs monopolizing things, hence only PPP intervention may boost a rapid jumpstart in subway expansion.

Maybe if more people ranted like mikeTDOT, someone higher up would...*gasp!*...start listening. We have the means to build as many new transit lines as we want, we just choose not to.

I recommend you guys check out this. It more than justifies the validity of subway or combined subway and LRTs along the full lengths of Eglinton and Queen.

www.geog.utoronto.ca/info/facweb/Harvey/Harvey/reports/Eglinton%20Report(8May2003,%20no%20photos).doc

I'm sure the next expansion plan will now focus clearly on ROWs. No use planning until all legal obstacles have been resolved.

But where? My recommendations are a toss between Bremmer-Front and the Finch Hydro Corridor.

 

[andomano52]

Pshh a subway under queen... it'll kill all the villages and most of all, we won't have any streetcars to watch passing by while watch much music or city tv

 

[Degnaw]

Scarborough begs for subways it can't fill (find a full train east of Coxwell if you dare)

Where would all the passengers go if a full train stopped at Kennedy? It would take at least 5-10 minutes for all the passengers to dissipate into the SRT and buses

 

[socialwoe]

Pshh a subway under queen... it'll kill all the villages and most of all, we won't have any streetcars to watch passing by while watch much music or city tv

Kill all the villages? Ugh :rolleyes ! More like preserving them, you mean. Imagine every community along Queen/Lakeshore accessible by subway and not forever bus journeys south from BD or along sluggish streetcars. Places from Fallingbrook to Sherway Gardens with travel times reduced to under 15 mins to get into the core.

Hence for instance, when the Beaches Jazz Festival rolls around, 000s more will show up bringing in more $$$ than would have otherwise since direct access= more traffic. Redevelopment occuring's now (Kipling/Lakeshore, Mimico, Swansea, Abell-Queen West, Corktown, Woodine Mews) so regardless of a Queen subway it'd be wise that you quickly grasp this concept: nowhere is static, neighbourhoods can change. Would you believe Yorkville was once a hippy hangout based on it's stature today?

Where would all the passengers go if a full train stopped at Kennedy? It would take at least 5-10 minutes for all the passengers to dissipate into the SRT and buses

You've missed the point. Everyone acts like STC is the primary destination of most commuters through Scarborough when in fact it's Kennedy. STC's only important now because it's a transit hub. No one wants to admit even a slight extension east (Markham) would deminish it's relevance so much the notion of one subway line serving it let alone two would be laughed to death. People also assume there's only one routing of warrant to serve an area one-third the total size of the 416. North and South Scarborough are very distinctive hence each deserve their own LRT/RT/subway.

Why should STC get served ahead of the SE (Guildwood/Cedarbrae/West Hill/UTSC/Port Union) or the NE (Milliken, Centennial College, Malvern, Morningside Hts./Zoo)? You may argue buses from Kennedy and STC handle those areas but they it sporadically, hence better is needed. But since funds could never suffice all these trippers with subways, why not sign off on the LRT network already.

Queen unlike STC has nodes in immediacy (no long bus transfer) serving tens of 000s more than STC could ever aspire to yet we're supposed to believe an underpopulated area needs a subway when an overcrowded, compactedly dense node doesn't/streetcars are good enough?

 

[Degnaw]

or the NE (Milliken, Centennial College, Malvern, Morningside Hts./Zoo)

..........

But anyways, it IS a primary destination in Scarborough thanks to SCC. I agree the south and NE need more service, but for now, SCC is the best place to terminate.

On second thought, much of London's "underground" track runs in rail corridors (or is elevated adjacent to housing)

 

[scarberiankhatru]

^ Indeed, you can't serve NE Scarborough with subways without extending the subway to STC.

 

[socialwoe]

Indeed, you can't serve NE Scarborough with subways without extending the subway to STC.

Ever heard of the Sheppard Line ? Without a jog down to Ellesmere it'd be a quick zip from Yonge to Meadowvale. But anyways the point I brought up was for promoting the LRT network radiating across all parts of the borough in contrast to a single two-stop underground extension just to the center.
With Sheppard and Eglinton-Kingston acting as the primary transit corridors, the SRT/BD East effectively becomes a feeder line to either and without it's mighty transit hub STC would no longer warrant one subway line yet alone two. Hence after York U, take the LRTs out of downtown Toronto and redirect the political backing for subways in Scarborough, reverse both areas' situations and voila everybody wins !

 

[akaFTech]

Is the Vancouver Skytrain considered LRT? or something else? When TTC said they are considering LRT's does that mean replacing existing streetcars or expanding to new areas? It would be amazing to see something like the Skytrain being added to Toronto.

thx

 

[Degnaw]

When they say LRT, they mean streetcars in a right-of-way. The skytrain is already in Toronto in the form of the Scarborough RT

 

[EnviroTO]

LRT would technically include SkyTrain, SRT, and streetcars/trams. The capacity of the vehicle, the ROW, and the spacing of stops is what makes all the difference. When the city is talking about implementing LRT for the most part they are talking about partially isolated ROWs such as what is being built on St.Clair and exists on Spadina and Queens Quay but with the new vehicles that will carry a greater number of passengers and will be handicap accessible. The new vehicles will likely all have a capacity equal to or greater than the ALRTs. The only place fully isolated ROWs could be implemented without tunnelling or tearing down a lot of buildings is in the hydro corridors, along freeways, along river valleys, or along railway lines. Based on the mayors response all the planned LRTs are aimed at following streets so it is safe to assume we will not be seeing fully isolated ROWs.

 

[SD2]

sorry for the rant..........just anything coming from miller or his crony's makes my blood boil.........but then again you get what you my fellow Torontonians voted for.........well done fellow citizens, way to go?!!??

Would LeDrew or Pitfield have been better choices?

 

[unimaginative2]

Pitfield did actually promise subway construction, thoguh the commitment was rather vague.

The mayor seemes to be looking exclusively at streetcars in private rights of way. The city has now almost completed its third such project, and has so far seemed incapable of generating any significant travel time savings. Any increases in capacity have also been passed on to riders in terms of reduced service. I'm becoming less and less convinced that there is any benefit to converting long suburban bus routes to streetcars, particularly considering the hundreds of millions that the infrastructure would cost.