[Northern Light]

it effectively already goes to lakeshore. Extending it directly south would run it right through the Scadding Cabin as well, the oldest structure in the city.

It meets Lakeshore (via British Columbia Drive) at the western extreme of the Exhibition Grounds.
I do see connectivity value in creating a more direct, N-S to Lakeshore and Ontario Place.
The cabin is easily avoided.

But clearly, such a connection would run across some existing greenspace, and parking, and displace something.

You can go either of these two ways (roughly) to get to Lakeshore, while leaving Scadding where it is.

The eastern option cuts a bit closer to Scadding, but could be bumped further east, at the expense of the current park/public space design.
This route would likely displace the Fort Rouille Monument, unless you went east and over the fountain/bandshell area.

The western options cuts relatively to close to the Liberty complex. I tend to think the more westerly option would be less disruptive. The alignment could be closer to the Windmill than I suggest in the image above.

*****

I can't say I think the extension is a top priority pending a thoughtful discussion on the future of Exhibition Place.......and I hasten to add, does not need to be tied into the bridge project that is the subject of this thread.

But I think it is worth considering down the line.

 

[DSC]

it effectively already goes to lakeshore. Extending it directly south would run it right through the Scadding Cabin as well, the oldest structure in the city.

Not that I think it needs to be extended so far south but the Scadding cabin has been moved at least once before so if it had to be moved again it would hardly be a a major 'thing'. See: https://www.yorkpioneers.com/scadding-cabin/

 

[nfitz]

But I think it is worth considering down the line.

To what end? The current west to north and south to east movements are pretty easy. All they really have to do to achieve this is to rename British Columbia Drive!

 

[Northern Light]

To what end? The current west to north and south to east movements are pretty easy. All they really have to do to achieve this is to rename British Columbia Drive!

To not sustain Lakeshore as an Expressway w/no meaningful intersections.

To connect Ontario Place to areas to the north in a meaningful way.

The great flaw in OP and in the Exhibition grounds is not only their disconnect from each other; but to surrounding neighbourhoods/communities.

They're isolated.

Roads; albeit supporting pedestrians, cyclists and transit, in that order, are the answer.

 

[junctionist]

Isn't the Fort Rouille monument supposed to mark the location of Fort Rouille? You can't move it without significantly detracting from what makes it interesting. There might also be archaeological issues given that it stands on the site of an 18th-century fort.

More people should be drawn to the area of the monument. It's one of the first places in the city where Europeans started a settlement and has a really interesting history. Unfortunately, people rarely see it because the layout of the CNE grounds doesn't draw foot traffic towards it.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Isn't the Fort Rouille monument supposed to mark the location of Fort Rouille? You can't move it without significantly detracting from what makes it interesting. There might also be archaeological issues given that it stands on the site of an 18th-century fort.

More people should be drawn to the area of the monument. It's one of the first places in the city where Europeans started a settlement and has a really interesting history. Unfortunately, people rarely see it because the layout of the CNE grounds doesn't draw foot traffic towards it.

How many people know that the Exhibition Place grounds used to be part of the military grounds of New Fort York? The Stanley Barracks is the only stone building left of the "new" fort.

See link.

New Fort York, later the Stanley Barracks, is a former British and Canadian military base in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, located on the Lake Ontario shoreline. It was built in 1840–1841 to replace Toronto's original Fort York at the mouth of Garrison Creek as the primary military base for the settlement. Unlike the older fort, many of the new fort buildings were made with limestone, instead of wood. A protective wall was planned for the new fort but was never built. The fort was used by the British army until 1870, and the Canadian military subsequently used the fort to train troops for the Second Boer War, World War I and World War II. It also trained one of the first regiments of the North-West Mounted Police. The Canadian military stopped using it after World War II and the fort was demolished in the 1950s. Only the Officers' Quarters building remains on the site.

 

[W. K. Lis]

The Exhibition Place grounds was part of the military reserve, which is why it was not developed in Toronto's early years. That's also why the city was able to use the grounds for the Toronto Industrial Exhibition, later renamed Canadian National Exhibition. Part of the north of the reserve was granted to be used as a lunatic asylum. The western boundary was Dufferin Street, assuming it would reach Lake Ontario.

From link.

 

[Towered]

Isn't the Fort Rouille monument supposed to mark the location of Fort Rouille? You can't move it without significantly detracting from what makes it interesting. There might also be archaeological issues given that it stands on the site of an 18th-century fort.

More people should be drawn to the area of the monument. It's one of the first places in the city where Europeans started a settlement and has a really interesting history. Unfortunately, people rarely see it because the layout of the CNE grounds doesn't draw foot traffic towards it.

It isn't helped by the fact that there's nothing there aside from lines on the ground indicating where the walls were, so it's not particularly interesting in the way that it's currently presented.

 

[milkycontent]

To what end? The current west to north and south to east movements are pretty easy. All they really have to do to achieve this is to rename British Columbia Drive!

Imagine you live in Parkdale or Liberty Village and want to walk down to the water while pushing a baby stroller. There are basically zero good options. West of Strachan, there is not a SINGLE road that goes directly to the waterfront until Parkside. A level crossing at a Dufferin and Lakeshore intersection would be the most preferable way to get to the water for a huge number of local residents.

 

[tsm1072]

Imagine you live in Parkdale or Liberty Village and want to walk down to the water while pushing a baby stroller. There are basically zero good options. West of Strachan, there is not a SINGLE road that goes directly to the waterfront until Parkside. A level crossing at a Dufferin and Lakeshore intersection would be the most preferable way to get to the water for a huge number of local residents.

From what I can see, here are the step-free crossings of lakeshore between Strachan and Lakeshore:

1. Newfoundland Rd/Ontario Place Blvd (Traffic lights w/ Pedestrian crosswalk)
2. Pedestrian bridge to Budweiser Stage
3. New Brunswick Way (Traffic lights w/ Pedestrian crosswalk)
4. Pedestrian Bridge to Ontario Place West Island
5. Bailey Bridge (Has steps, this should be improved)
6. British Columbia Road (Traffic lights w/ Pedestrian crosswalk)
7. Jameson Ave (Pedestrian Bridge)
8. Dowling Ave (Pedestrian Bridge over the Gardiner, Traffic lights w/ Pedestrian crosswalk at Lakeshore)
9. Roncesvalles Pedestrian Bridge

Half of these are bridges, which is preferred for pedestrians and drivers. Keeping lakeshore flowing without traffic lights is a benefit to all. I'm not sure creating another intersection with lakeshore is worth it. The Bailey Bridge should be made step-free, and then would be superior for pedestrians to any kind of Dufferin extensions and intersection.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Imagine you live in Parkdale or Liberty Village and want to walk down to the water while pushing a baby stroller. There are basically zero good options. West of Strachan, there is not a SINGLE road that goes directly to the waterfront until Parkside. A level crossing at a Dufferin and Lakeshore intersection would be the most preferable way to get to the water for a huge number of local residents.

good thing about walking is that you don't need a road. There is already a quite pleasant walking path on that route:

 

[milkycontent]

From what I can see, here are the step-free crossings of lakeshore between Strachan and Lakeshore:

1. Newfoundland Rd/Ontario Place Blvd (Traffic lights w/ Pedestrian crosswalk)
2. Pedestrian bridge to Budweiser Stage
3. New Brunswick Way (Traffic lights w/ Pedestrian crosswalk)
4. Pedestrian Bridge to Ontario Place West Island
5. Bailey Bridge (Has steps, this should be improved)
6. British Columbia Road (Traffic lights w/ Pedestrian crosswalk)
7. Jameson Ave (Pedestrian Bridge)
8. Dowling Ave (Pedestrian Bridge over the Gardiner, Traffic lights w/ Pedestrian crosswalk at Lakeshore)
9. Roncesvalles Pedestrian Bridge

Half of these are bridges, which is preferred for pedestrians and drivers. Keeping lakeshore flowing without traffic lights is a benefit to all. I'm not sure creating another intersection with lakeshore is worth it. The Bailey Bridge should be made step-free, and then would be superior for pedestrians to any kind of Dufferin extensions and intersection.

1 - 4 you have to get into Exhibition Place to get to those, so if you're walking probably coming from Dufferin and it's a bit of a hike.
5. is a DISASTER if you have mobility issues or have a stroller
6. BRUTAL intersection that is basically an on ramp to the Gardiner. Not pedestrian friendly at all.
7. LOL!! Like walking on the shoulder of the highway.
8. Probably the best option, can't wait for the permanent bridge.
9. Super far away if you're in Parkdale.

Why should Lakeshore "flow" when the Gardiner is right there? Lakeshore should be a pleasant place to be, not a racetrack.

 

[tsm1072]

1 - 4 you have to get into Exhibition Place to get to those, so if you're walking probably coming from Dufferin and it's a bit of a hike.
5. is a DISASTER if you have mobility issues or have a stroller
6. BRUTAL intersection that is basically an on ramp to the Gardiner. Not pedestrian friendly at all.
7. LOL!! Like walking on the shoulder of the highway.
8. Probably the best option, can't wait for the permanent bridge.
9. Super far away if you're in Parkdale.

Why should Lakeshore "flow" when the Gardiner is right there? Lakeshore should be a pleasant place to be, not a racetrack.

The bailey bridge should definitely be replaced with a wider, step-free bridge instead. Lakeshore should also be reduced to 2-lanes per direction to allow for a 2-way bike lane on the south side that will essentially widen the Martin Goodman trail and reduce bike-pedestrian conflicts. Keeping roads flowing is important, people do use cars and traffic is a benefit to no one.

 

[Northern Light]

good thing about walking is that you don't need a road. There is already a quite pleasant walking path on that route:

View attachment 347331

Putting aside any pedestrian or cyclist challenges with the above option, and that it doesn't afford a transit connection.........

It does nothing to ameliorate Lakeshore Blvd itself.

Lakeshore is a veritable highway, its ugly, its unpleasant to walk or bike along in this stretch, and it serves to create a material disconnection between the Ex. grounds and Ontario Place.

Creating a new at-grade intersection at Lakeshore is one small step in the direction of humanizing it.

It also needs to be stripped of one lane in each direction, and benefit from substantially better streetscaping and pedestrian/cycling conditions.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Putting aside any pedestrian or cyclist challenges with the above option, and that it doesn't afford a transit connection.........

It does nothing to ameliorate Lakeshore Blvd itself.

Lakeshore is a veritable highway, its ugly, its unpleasant to walk or bike along in this stretch, and it serves to create a material disconnection between the Ex. grounds and Ontario Place.

Creating a new at-grade intersection at Lakeshore is one small step in the direction of humanizing it.

It also needs to be stripped of one lane in each direction, and benefit from substantially better streetscaping and pedestrian/cycling conditions.

Plus part of Lake Shore Blvd. W. is used as an acceleration lane for the Toronto Indy. Since they only use three of the six lanes, two of lanes can be sacrificed for the benefit of climate.

From link. They could even make the race barriers more permanent to better protect cyclists.