[Second_in_pie]

Doesn't CN have their own corridor that meets up with the CP one (kind of) just before Bowmanville?

I think that once you get out there in such open land, it'd definitely make sense just to build their own track the final distance to Bowmanville, after which I can't really see any more Go extensions being needed.

 

[DavidH]

The politicians in Durham answer only to their masters: big developers. Citizens are an afterthought.

To some extent, it's true. There are some exceptions - Ajax Council seems fairly willing to stand up to developers (e.g. lengthy fights at the OBM to stop developer proposals to convert commercial zoning to residential). But on balance, that's a part of it.

Part of it is a reluctance to squeeze for more taxes. And part of it is that transit usage in Durham is still largely dominated by groups with relatively little voice - high school and university students, seniors. True there are those who take the bus to the GO station on weekdays but there is relatively little at other times.

So they are stuck in the catch 22 of needing more service to attract riders but not having the ridership to justify more service.

Some of the DRT senior staf know me on a first name basis after my career of writing my blog, and I've come to feel a great deal of sympathy for the position they are in. They KNOW they are not providing really good service but the political will is not there to do much about it.

As I said, we'll see what the actual 2010 service plan shows - but at this point I'm fearful it will be another lost year for DRT. I will definitely be asking this question at the community next week. Planning for rapid transit lines (even if it's just BRT) is important but there is so much bread-and-butter work to be done....

That, and their mental facilities are very limited.

I think underestimating our opponents is a dangerous thing. Durham Council is fully supportive of better transit. They just want someone else to pay for it. And in fairness, they have a point. We still don't have the provincial operational subsidy that was in place before 1995, and they are NOT allowed to increase development charges to pay for transit improvements because they have to base it on the average service level of the past ten years. The end result is that bad service begets more bad service. A change to this is in the Metrolinx RTP but nothing has happened with it.

I can't speak for DavidH, but my sense that there are people at DRT chomping at the bit to restructure their system, but Durham Region Council is hardly the most transit-friendly and pro-urban group of pols. We can start with Roger Anderson. This does though negate the few pols who get it, like Ajax's Steve Parrish.

Exactly. There is the beginning of a shift in Durham politicians but it's embryonic. At the regional level, the voices for sustainable development and everything that goes along with it are often drowned out.

 

[DavidH]

I should point out that the study people have been putting supporting documents here:

http://www.durhamlongtermtransitstrategy.ca/Newsletters.html

The interesting stuff is under Other Reports and Documents

 

[Hipster Duck]

I think all that's really needed is 10 minute service on the red lines and possibly signal priority/enhanced shelters/POP on Hwy 2. Anything beyond this is overkill, especially with the GO Lakeshore and proposed GO Bowmanville lines.

 

[doady]

Durham Region should not make the same mistake that Toronto is making with Transit City, and York Region made with VIVA, and Mississauga and Brampton are making with their BRT plans. Instead of spreading out money on along multiple corridors, the focus should be on the most important corridor(s), which in this case is the Highway 2 corridor.

This corridor dominates the system and any improvements in this corridor can have a ripple effect throughout the whole system, something that Toronto, York, Mississauga and Brampton have failed realize for their major corridors. Focus on a single corridor can bring much greater benefits than trying to make smaller improvements to multiple corridors. I think the ridership is there and the development potential is there for LRT along Highway 2. It can supprot LRT easily.

Aside from Simcoe Street, none of those north-south corridors can even support 10 minute bus servce, let alone any sort of rapid transit. But if they connect to an LRT along Highway 2, who knows. But in the meantime, why bother with them at all?

 

[DavidH]

Aside from Simcoe Street, none of those north-south corridors can even support 10 minute bus servce, let alone any sort of rapid transit. But if they connect to an LRT along Highway 2, who knows. But in the meantime, why bother with them at all?

Let's keep in mind that this is a long term plan; some of these "red' routes may not happen for 20 years.

In general, I think the focus needs to be on solid bus service across the region with a higher level service on Highway 2 and possibly Taunton (connecting in with Steeles - this is a long term Metrolinx route.

Any other feedback, folks? I'll be attending the meeting on Tuesday night.

 

[SunriseChampion]

I'm sorry but I don't buy the excuse that the current ridership doesn't warrant expansion and improvement of service.

The current ridership isn't there almost only because of the lack of service.
I can't speak for everyone in Durham but I will take this opportunity to speak for myself and my peer group (full-time employed and students aged 19-25): we would use it more if the service was more convenient.

I'm sorry but hourly buses that run hither and yon through suburban side-streets in only one direction with the bare minimum of bus shelters and time tables along with the route name and routing changes dependent on time of day and week is not something terribly appealing to anyone.

If you build it they will come. Or, in this case, if you improve service, they will come.

Anderson et al need to wake up and soon. For a region of 500K+ people, the level of transit service is not only sad and pathetic, it's disgusting.

PS: I'm speaking from the point of view of someone familiar with only Pickering-Ajax. I'm not familiar with how DRT operates in Whitby-Oshawa.

PPS: I didn't even mention how absolutely ridiculous it is to try and transfer buses at any place other than the bloody train station.

 

[MisterF]

What i'm saying is that they should extend the existing GO ROW as they expand into Oshawa and Bowmanville without using CP or CN track, maybe run along side it, but not use it. It's stupid idea to reconnected it at Oshawa when they have to end up having to buy the line from CN/CP and still have to share if the line becomes electrify. This way we don't have to worrie about traffic on the line from CP/CN.

So what you're opposed to is using actual CP or CN tracks? I don't see what that has to do with which corridor they use. GO could add extra tracks to the CP ROW just like you're saying. The CP line has the advantage of going closer to downtown Oshawa and just a block from downtown Bowmanville.

 

[CodeMonkey]

So what you're opposed to is using actual CP or CN tracks? I don't see what that has to do with which corridor they use. GO could add extra tracks to the CP ROW just like you're saying. The CP line has the advantage of going closer to downtown Oshawa and just a block from downtown Bowmanville.

I agree, but i don't get their point on ending the ROW to merge into the CP/CN tracks as they suggested. The tracks after the ROW will have to be updated to handle the GO Trains, and they then have to buy the land if they chose to electrify the trains at the same time they have to share the line which will make it impossible to have increased service.

With ROW their already paying for the land and new tracks that will handle the GO trains with room for electrification. Plus they don't have to wait for CN/CP cargo trains to pass by or wait for them to finish loading up.

 

[doady]

If you build it they will come. Or, in this case, if you improve service, they will come.

I never said service should not be improved at all, did I? All the north-south arterials in Durham can easily support 30 minute bidirectional service, at least, but rapid transit? No way.

If you build it they will come? Doesn't work that way. And you just have to look at VIVA and York Region if you want proof of that. Even private businesses have to pay attention to demographics and location. And geography is an even more important consideration for transit, perhaps THE most important.

 

[Long Island Mike]

The Durham bus battle-one year later...

Everyone: I was wondering what the final outcome was of this case-has anything changed in the past year?

Does that bus route still face NIMBY opposition as mentioned and are those in opposition still fighting DRT about the routing?

I brought this up because I remembered how blatant this case was in its NIMBY opposition and the selfishness of those opposed to this bus route.

Long Island Mike

 

[DavidH]

Everyone: I was wondering what the final outcome was of this case-has anything changed in the past year?

Does that bus route still face NIMBY opposition as mentioned and are those in opposition still fighting DRT about the routing?

I can speak on some authority as I live in this neighbourhood and ride this route. No change to the route has been made, and the demand was rejected by Council. From what I've seen, it's a dead issue at this point.

Silly thing is, there actually was a case to be made in eliminating the loop in favour of route rationalization - but once Ms. Cassidy started ranting about how important she was, her case was doomed.

 

[doady]

It is heartwarming that Durham Region and DRT did not sink down to the level of Toronto and the TTC (e.g. the battle of Burnhamthorpe).

 

[SunriseChampion]

I didn't say anyone said that; i was reminded of it by something DavidH wrote.

Anyway, I was just speaking from my point of view and that of my group of friends and the reason why we don't use transit (or are not able to) as much as we should be and want to be.

 

[MisterF]

I agree, but i don't get their point on ending the ROW to merge into the CP/CN tracks as they suggested. The tracks after the ROW will have to be updated to handle the GO Trains, and they then have to buy the land if they chose to electrify the trains at the same time they have to share the line which will make it impossible to have increased service.

With ROW their already paying for the land and new tracks that will handle the GO trains with room for electrification. Plus they don't have to wait for CN/CP cargo trains to pass by or wait for them to finish loading up.

I see what you're saying - it doesn't matter which corridor they use, GO should have its own tracks. Through Oshawa I agree, but there will always be far fewer trains going to Bowmanville so GO having its own tracks there isn't as important.