[nfitz]

There are raw numbers on the police website.

http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/statistics/ytd_stats.php

And while it's true that it's currently 143, up from 103 in 2011, it's still down from 2009 when it was 150. Injuries are also down from 67 in 2009 to 45.

So is 2012 an aberration? Was 2011 the aberration? Was 2009 the aberration? Are there trends? Hard to say ... need longer-term data I'd say. Simply looking from one year to another doesn't give a big enough picture.

 

[doady]

Gang members killing each other... if these sort of killings happened more often then our city would be even safer. Trash taking out trash. I wish my trash could itself out too so I wouldn't have to do it myself.

 

[Southoftheborder]

Yeh, if they could shoot straight. But they have no skills with firearms, so bystanders are highly likely to be victims along with any "trash" taken out. Far better if trained policemen did the shooting. But citizens think it is terribly wrong for a policeman to be an executioner. Far better to leave the trash to shoot peaceful citizens. That's the logic of the civil society. You get to be the target rather than a gang member.

 

[AKS]

Far better if trained policemen did the shooting. But citizens think it is terribly wrong for a policeman to be an executioner. Far better to leave the trash to shoot peaceful citizens. That's the logic of the civil society. You get to be the target rather than a gang member.

That is what the law is there for, to protect people. Innocent until proven guilty. You want a terminator to run around killing everyone who he thinks is guilty? Why bother making any laws then.

 

[Southoftheborder]

That is what the law is there for, to protect people. Innocent until proven guilty. You want a terminator to run around killing everyone who he thinks is guilty? Why bother making any laws then.

"To protect people". Tell that to the parents of the kid with a bullet in his head. Did the law protect people in Eaton Centre? I'd say the shooter is the only one who got protection. The average citizen got bupkus.

 

[AKS]

"To protect people". Tell that to the parents of the kid with a bullet in his head. Did the law protect people in Eaton Centre? I'd say the shooter is the only one who got protection. The average citizen got bupkus.

You better pray you or people you know never have any run-ins (whether innocent or not) with the police. Otherwise they might shoot you on the spot if the laws were removed.

Thugs may will shoot anywhere and everywhere. If they were smart and picked better places, they wouldn't be thugs in the first place because they were smart not to join. I believe that some people might be there because they've fallen into an unfortunate state but I don't think all thugs are killers. I don't think all thugs should be killed on sight because they choose to become one. One incident, does not make it right to shoot people at random because he/she is a thug. You're sensationalizing one incident.

 

[Southoftheborder]

Yep. There you have it folks. That's the line of reasoning that makes you fair game everywhere to people who have NO law. Don't take the leash off the dogs because, obviously, it is YOU they want to bite! I keep watching these shows about how this or that biker gang is taken down in Canada (amazing how many times it has happened). And the leaders of the gangs walk around smug in total confidence that law-abiding cops will never surrender to the urge to take any opportunity to chop the head off the body of the gang. Because out there are citizens who think "Today a Hell's Angel, tomorrow ME!" Meanwhile how many deaths do these gang leaders order from within the protective bubble they are given? If it were me, I'd take an RPG and blow their gang headquarters to kingdom come and say "Oops! My bad".

Ah, but then, I'm an American! The epitome of evil on the continent. Not like those decent folks north of the border (come to think of it, no WONDER biker gangs want to set up shop north of the border).

 

[doug]

Ah, but then, I'm an American! The epitome of evil on the continent. Not like those decent folks north of the border (come to think of it, no WONDER biker gangs want to set up shop north of the border).

Good of you to admit to it ...but it's no secret.

 

[Southoftheborder]

I'm a global populist. If someone had stuck a knife in the Eaton shooter and he'd died, I would have said "Notch one up for the people of the world. This guy won't sit and gloat how much more protection he got than they had." And if a gang is running a drug operation out of a house, and the police are aware, and nothing happens, I think a couple of nighttime fire bombs are the least the people deserve. Most of human history, people defended themselves. Then for the benefit of the rich, this society was set up that insured near total immunity for the rich. The bad guys figured out how easy it was to exploiit it, and that's why rampant crime is almost impossible to stop.

And there is this element of suckers out in society who aren't rich but will SPRING TO THE DEFENSE of the lopsided system. They want to burnish their self-image as "more civilized than thou". Well, just remember that the worst mass murder in all of human existence was committed in the name of civilization. You might want to think about how big a gold star it is when you claim "I am civilized". I think Canadians have a thing about that. "We're better than our southern neighbors because we have more CIVILIZATION". Only weak egos need that.

 

[doug]

Well, just remember that the worst mass murder in all of human existence was committed in the name of civilization.

...the US bombing of Dresden? Hiroshima? Do tell.

Only weak egos need that.

And weaker egos, like yourself, post on message boards as if your opinion actually means anything.

 

[Jonny5]

Not like those decent folks north of the border (come to think of it, no WONDER biker gangs want to set up shop north of the border).

Biker gangs? Did UT warp back in time to 1995, or just pick up another ignorant, fact cherry picking from the past poster. Next we'll be hearing how dangerous the QEW is because of "Flying truck tires!"

EDIT: And for the record, in 1995, the only "biker gang" member I had a problem with was an MP:

 

[adma]

Ah, but then, I'm an American! The epitome of evil on the continent. Not like those decent folks north of the border (come to think of it, no WONDER biker gangs want to set up shop north of the border).

What are you doing in UT, then?

Here's a cue for my usual "I smell a ban coming on" cue...

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

The biker gangs had been around in Canada for awhile, ditto the violence that goes with them.

Well, just remember that the worst mass murder in all of human existence was committed in the name of civilization

Actually the "worst" mass murder of recent history is committed by the authoritarian type taken to its' logical extremes, enabled by a population made docile by fears of uncertainty. Sounds like the latter is what you're espousing.

AoD

 

[Long Island Mike]

Everyone: It has been quite some time since I read topics here at UT in depth but I wanted to post a reply about this shocking incident...

I remember this because it made the local news here in NYC because of where it happened...The Eaton Centre in Downtown Toronto...

I wonder if this would have made a major news story had this shooting happened in Yorkdale,Sherway Gardens or the Scarborough Town Centre...

I wonder what the reaction would have been if this had happened in for example Chicago's Water Tower Place on North Michigan Avenue or
a major NYC store or mall like those in Manhattan's Herald Square...It would prompt perhaps a crackdown on gangs and guns...

It shows that illegal guns are a problem in Canada also like they are in states in the US like NY which themselves have strict gun laws...

It shows that equal laws regulating guns should be implemented...but with the strong NRA to contend with they may never come to pass...

LI MIKE