[northlands]

I also don't understand how we can have 2 large business schools and yet it seems there are minimal jobs for business students. I guess that is me being biased in thinking that business jobs are in the CBD . Granted, my office is technically in Oliver.

Yeah the options are largely big 4 (and some smaller consulting/accounting firms), gov't and CRE. Pretty sad tbh, speaks again to the lack of head offices here, or even meaningful regional offices.

 

[David A]

^Sorry to highjack. One more post:

Just a quick Google search came up with these 35 year predictions from 2009 for both residential and office growth for Downtown. Page 25 there is a figure about Downtown office employees. I would have no reason to believe this forecast has changed much (from the conversations I've had). We haven't seen any major company announcements for Downtown except Stantec during this time, so hard to know if that's already part of this. As you can see there's very little to no forecasted growth for office workers. Right now the daytime population is about 1/3 of this number pre-pandemic.

View attachment 459059

https://www.edmonton.ca/public-files/assets/document?path=Downtown_Forecasts.pdf

Thanks, this is useful. If my math is correct, about a 5.7% increase from 2009 to 2019 the last pre COVID year shown. I don't know if the 2024 slight decline from 2019 is factoring in COVID.

I'm not a fan of many decade year projections, a lot of unexpected things can happen (either better or worse) over a long period, so I wouldn't place too much reliance on them. In any event the stagnation or perhaps what might be more correctly referred to as very slow growth, seems more in the future predictions/projections than in the figures from the last decade or so.

 

[David A]

'it's that people just don't want to do it.'

This and it will be interesting to see how employers manage that as unemployment rates change, new strategic planning is done and opportunities present themselves.

WFH is not for everyone, but I suspect many of those who want to go back to the office have and it will be more challenging to entice the rest back. If unemployment increases, as it has been recently, but slowly in Alberta (although not as much in Edmonton), that might make some employees more willing to go back.

Anecdotally, for what it is worth, I know someone who works with a cautious organization that is just starting to have people return downtown soon and I know they have not been happy having to work out of make shift space in their living room. So we shouldn't assume everyone wants WFH. I suspect there are others situations like this too.

 

[David A]

Yeah the options are largely big 4 (and some smaller consulting/accounting firms), gov't and CRE. Pretty sad tbh, speaks again to the lack of head offices here, or even meaningful regional offices.

Part of the problem, which I agree with CaptainBL on is that city council has mostly passed of economic development to an arms length body that doesn't seem to be doing much.

I think it is part of the culture in our civic government that our leaders don't see it as part of their job to focus on attracting such regional or head offices. However, its not just the current mayor and council, it has been a blind spot for a quite a while.

 

[Garneau2Go]

I wonder whether or not work from home could be a opportunity in a roundabout way. Instead of having 200-300 in one central office building, could the number of workers downtown increase but just working out of multiple apartments and co-working spaces? Is a permanent base of downtown workers not better than one that leaves the core every night?

Downtown living is a lifestyle. Living car-free, eco-friendly, walkable, close to shops, cultural amenities, festivals, cafes and restaurants. You can get very close to that "Downtown Toronto" lifestyle here for much cheaper. Places like City Centre can serve an increased population and can be an employment centre serving everyone, not just office staff.

I realize that the push for more people to live downtown is happening, I just think that it can be better leveraged in a way to help offset the commuting population.

 

[Greenspace]

^Agreed, it's a lifestyle and we have been doing everything we can to improve that lifestyle and experience Downtown.

That said, 6% of office workers live Downtown for a variety of reasons including that the mature neighbourhoods and suburbs are super easy to commute to and cheap to live in relative to other cities. Also many live in adjacent Oliver which is really downtown for most folks.

 

[TAS]

With the recent announcement of Future Fields expansion in Edmonton that was previously posted, and the fact that they are setting up a 6,000 sq ft facility in the downtown area (just behind MacEwan U) I wonder if we need to think of some of this dt land as opportunity to bring other kinds of workers instead of the office crowd.

Future Fields gets funding to scale fruit-fly-powered biomanufacturing

Edmonton will be the site of the world's first production facility for recombinant protein derived from fruit flies after Future Fields secured US$11.2 million in funding from investors and the federal government.

edmonton.taproot.news

Could the warehouse district return to its former glory by actually having that kind of industry/work? Dt is the most accessible part of the city via public transit and there's lots of land. Office workers are on the decline and even if they increase again, there is a lot of available office space for them.

If more things could be manufactured here, it could open up some opportunities dt to bring other kinds of workers.

 

[David A]

I wonder whether or not work from home could be a opportunity in a roundabout way. Instead of having 200-300 in one central office building, could the number of workers downtown increase but just working out of multiple apartments and co-working spaces? Is a permanent base of downtown workers not better than one that leaves the core every night?

Downtown living is a lifestyle. Living car-free, eco-friendly, walkable, close to shops, cultural amenities, festivals, cafes and restaurants. You can get very close to that "Downtown Toronto" lifestyle here for much cheaper. Places like City Centre can serve an increased population and can be an employment centre serving everyone, not just office staff.

I realize that the push for more people to live downtown is happening, I just think that it can be better leveraged in a way to help offset the commuting population.

Interesting thoughts. A lot of employees working from home probably live in suburban locations, but as the city grows the drive in from far away does not get shorter. So maybe hybrid work or returning to the office will lead at least some to reconsider living in a more central location. You can save a lot of money by not having to drive, pay for parking, etc.. and unlike the GTA two bedroom condo's downtown here are not very expensive at all, especially if you are ok with some place that is not brand new.

 

[kcantor]

Part of the problem, which I agree with CaptainBL on is that city council has mostly passed of economic development to an arms length body that doesn't seem to be doing much.

I think it is part of the culture in our civic government that our leaders don't see it as part of their job to focus on attracting such regional or head offices. However, its not just the current mayor and council, it has been a blind spot for a quite a while.

emphasis added...

i'm not sure that that is a big part of problem though or that this is an accurate conclusion remembering that the industrial heartland is as fundamental to global edmonton as downtown and that, at the scale they operate under, they are looking to secure focused but large returns for their efforts and for the region - they are not a small business incubator...

it's in all of the region's partners best interests that regional economic development be pursued regionally such that all of the region's partners aren't continually competing with each other. i can't recall how many times i've seen a trade floor presence or rfp submissions from the city, from the county of strathcona, from the county of leduc, from st. albert etc. where they were all pitching against each other.

the big problem is that within the region global edmonton is marketing, their role isn't to pick and choose and pay favourites but to present the best options with the best changes to win from within the region. they are a marketing and economic development organization, not a booster group. if the city can't give them a downtown that can be successfully marketed and sold elsewhere, that's not edmonton global's fault.

you also have to remember a few other things: calgary economic development is substantially older, substantially larger, substantially better funded and has a substantially stronger brand to work with. like anything else, when it comes to economic development, you get what you pay for.

 

[David A]

Almost every major city has a metropolitan area, so really Edmonton is not unique in that regard. I do feel we get more hung up about this than elsewhere. It doesn't seem to stop mayors of other big cities from taking more initiative.

I agree, perhaps it is not all Edmonton Global's fault, that is consistent with my point of our city leadership not doing their part. It wouldn't be the first time a government set up an agency or something, didn't support it and then distanced itself from it when results were not achieved. However, regardless one does have to question the money and effort spent and the results achieved.

No doubt Calgary spends more, but I also feel they are fishing in a different pool. It seems like we are giving up and not fishing at all. For me, using the current state of downtown as a reason when to some extent it is the consequence of the city's lack of initiative over the years is like blaming the result for the problem.

 

[occidentalcapital]

Its about taking ownership. City, private sector, everyone. As Ken says, we need to have a marketable product. I am actually optimistic that we do have a marketable product. The pandemic has given the impression that things are worse than they are - with some help from the City, things can rebound nicely.

Edmonton Global has a big ship to turn and get pointing in the right direction, which they have done, and now it is time to step on the gas.

I will be watching to see the effect on street life when Valley LRT finally opens. This could be the catalyst we need.

 

[cmd uw]

Head offices don't make a great city. Vancouver doesn't have that many head offices and its a pretty good city.

 

[TAS]

Edmonton is easily the most affordable big city in Canada and that relates to quality of life.

Lots of other highlights- the greenest city in Canada, festival city, great educational institutions and public schools, rec facilities, parks, some of the best health facilities and so on.

I just don't think those are marketed well enough. But clearly when people move here and discover those things, they stay here.

 

[Garneau2Go]

Edmonton is easily the most affordable big city in Canada and that relates to quality of life.

Lots of other highlights- the greenest city in Canada, festival city, great educational institutions and public schools, rec facilities, parks, some of the best health facilities and so on.

I just don't think those are marketed well enough. But clearly when people move here and discover those things, they stay here.

Really wish I had an actual source for this but I've heard that in the HR/Recruitment world Edmonton is the hardest major city recruit both in and out of.

It's difficult to get people to come here, but once they're in it's really hard for them to leave because of those highlights and cost of living.

 

[IanO]

Head offices don't make a great city. Vancouver doesn't have that many head offices and its a pretty good city.

I don't know where to start with this one.