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Last I heard they were leaving SF in droves and Seattle wasn't doing as well any more either. Maybe the news hasn't fully reached here yet, but the great tech boom is paused or ending.

Back to the topic of the mall, I just went through there a few minutes ago, unless I missed something, for better or worse nothing seems to have changed from the last time I was there a few days ago.
 
David A said:
Last I heard they were leaving SF in droves and Seattle wasn't doing as well any more either. Maybe the news hasn't fully reached here yet, but the great tech boom is paused or ending.

Back to the topic of the mall, I just went through there a few minutes ago, unless I missed something, for better or worse nothing seems to have changed from the last time I was there a few days ago.
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Yes, San Fran proper lost population last year, however, historically it hasn't experienced rapid population growth over the past decade either. I would say the bulk of the population loss is highly correlated to people who moved out of city as remote work took off. It will be interesting to see how it bounces back. But I suspect it will take awhile.
 
Back to the topic at hand, went through City Centre today and noticed there is recently what seems to be a construction wall in front of the space next to Talbots.

Not sure what this is, I haven't heard anything. Some good news would be nice.
 
archited said:
All in the aid of a master-plan redo?
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Who know, maybe they will turn the third level into parking and move the food court to the main floor. I assume leased are not being renewed as they end, so they can clear out the space for (hopefully) something.
 
It is really hard work to turn something like this around, after the deep hole that has been dug. So I think it might seem easier to spend some money and turn the space into something else. However when you start to look at all the other possibilities, nothing else seems particularly promising or lucrative either.

So I'm not quite sure what the strategy is at this point. Maybe totally emptying out the space allows them to do a more major renovation with much of it remaining retail space in the end. Perhaps more open, nicer and more outward facing and when that is all done in a year or two, the COVID downtown depression will be over or have diminished considerably.
 
David A said:
It is really hard work to turn something like this around, after the deep hole that has been dug. So I think it might seem easier to spend some money and turn the space into something else. However when you start to look at all the other possibilities, nothing else seems particularly promising or lucrative either.

So I'm not quite sure what the strategy is at this point. Maybe totally emptying out the space allows them to do a more major renovation with much of it remaining retail space in the end. Perhaps more open, nicer and more outward facing and when that is all done in a year or two, the COVID downtown depression will be over or have diminished considerably.
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Curious what happened with those renders and plans we saw about a year ago. It looked like what you're describing -- at least for the west end -- but it seems someone jumped the gun releasing the photos because there's been no talk since...
 
There was talk. The owners indicated that until the Downtown gets cleaned up, becomes safer and sees more attention overall, that their significant multi-million dollar reinvestment will wait.
 
IanO said:
There was talk. The owners indicated that until the Downtown gets cleaned up, becomes safer and sees more attention overall, that their significant multi-million dollar reinvestment will wait.
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Yes, but I felt that was either frustration of the moment or political posturing - maybe a bit of both. However, as a longer term business strategy to me it does not make any sense.

All these problems are really never going to go away. The city seems to be making some effort to deal with the problems and make it more manageable/pleasant, but we are never getting to perfect. It would seem to me to be madness to me to sit on a huge mostly empty space for years with the costs entailed with little or no revenue in the hope some day years in the future it will somehow be great.
 
Their two towers are full, and there's some parkade revenue. There's a handful of service oriented stores that aren't going anywhere. Business strategies can span 5-40 years, so it might be just we're not party to what they're planning at this moment.

Security costs are WAY up all over Downtown. That's in direct response to real issues. But yes people complained about safety before the pandemic, but not to the extent I hear it now specifically from visitors and workers. I personally feel safe most of the times but consider myself 'street smart', but that's kinda irrelevant when we're talking about getting people back to Downtown and business confidence.
 
David A said:
Yes, but I felt that was either frustration of the moment or political posturing - maybe a bit of both. However, as a longer term business strategy to me it does not make any sense.
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spending another half a billion dollars or so throwing good money after bad doesn’t make sense as a business strategy either…

until there is enough confidence that the status quo isn’t going to stay the status quo (noting that economics and interest rates are also part of that status quo), we’re not likely to see much happen.
 
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