[thommyjo]

Objectively, the Chinook Centre is the most successful in Calgary, but I'll agree that we have the highest contrast, with WEM being one of the most successful malls in the whole country and ECC being the least successful DT mall, as far as I know

Kingsway killed local resident retail and WEM killed tourism and luxury retail would be the assessment I’d give.

And in general. Our suburbs/sprawls/and malls all did their part to draw money, people, and retail further from the core.

 

[Kosy123]

Kingsway killed local resident retail and WEM killed tourism and luxury retail would be the assessment I’d give.

And in general. Our suburbs/sprawls/and malls all did their part to draw money, people, and retail further from the core.

I honestly think the area will be better served if it focused on more teens-20's retail or experiences given the proximity of the behemoths of post-secondary institutions in the area. What that could be?

I honestly don't know, but I guess that's why forums like us exist lol

 

[dunno]

Objectively, the Chinook Centre is the most successful in Calgary, but I'll agree that we have the highest contrast, with WEM being one of the most successful malls in the whole country and ECC being the least successful DT mall, as far as I know

Portage Place in Winnipeg is in roughly the same position as City Centre. Hamilton’s Jackson Square (last I checked) was maybe about where City Centre was 8-10 years ago — not great but with a decent amount of amenities. Citi Plaza in London is worse off. I haven’t been but I’ve heard Cornwall Centre in Regina is very so-so, but still the healthiest remaining mall in the area.

When I think of successful downtown malls in Canada, I think of Vancouver, Victoria (unless that changed recently), Calgary, Saskatoon, Toronto, Ottawa, and Montreal. Pretty decent collection, especially compared with the States, but hardly like Edmonton is the only one missing out on this phenomenon. However, I will say what makes Edmonton stick out is that it’s the largest city with a dead downtown mall by a long shot.

WEM is definitely part of the picture, but I think Kingsway has had a more understated, but arguably bigger role at keeping Downtown Edmonton retail from thriving. Like, yeah, all the destination retail first popping up in Edmonton or only opening one location is mostly going to WEM, but what about the retailers that do branch out and feature in the region’s three “fortress” malls? Kingsway is too close to the core to make separate locations for destination stores viable in general. Uniqlo is looking at aggressively expanding across North America and just opened its 2nd Edmonton location at Southgate. You really think, if they open another one here, it’s going anywhere but Kingsway? And Kingsway’s proximity to the core will mean that there’s no way Downtown is getting a location. Rinse and repeat for Nike, Simons, Lululemon, Aritzia, Anthropologie, Apple Store, etc. Even a store like Urban Outfitters, known to try and have locations in more, well, urban locations, is far more likely to wind up on Whyte than Jasper or in City Centre.

 

[dunno]

I honestly think the area will be better served if it focused on more teens-20's retail or experiences given the proximity of the behemoths of post-secondary institutions in the area. What that could be?

I honestly don't know, but I guess that's why forums like us exist lol

Edmonton’s post-secondary schools are commuter schools, often with students still living at home in the suburbs. That, and even for those that have moved out and live more centrally, we’ve been so culturally conditioned in Edmonton to just go to the mall or South Common as the expected norm. Not saying this can’t change, but it’s not gonna be easy.

 

[Kosy123]

Edmonton’s post-secondary schools are commuter schools, often with students still living at home in the suburbs. That, and even for those that have moved out and live more centrally, we’ve been so culturally conditioned in Edmonton to just go to the mall or South Common as the expected norm. Not saying this can’t change, but it’s not gonna be easy.

Honestly yeah I can confirm that for a significant chunk of locals, that was the case. Hell, I was one of them. But with the growth coming more from international or interprovincial students, most of them are probably going to want to stay closer to their respective campuses, at least in my experience. I've met enough non-Edmontonians living in Oliver or Columbia Ave for that specific reason. I've also seen a decent chunk of international students living in the Mayfair on 109 too, as a specific example.

 

[Yeggy]

Objectively, the Chinook Centre is the most successful in Calgary, but I'll agree that we have the highest contrast, with WEM being one of the most successful malls in the whole country and ECC being the least successful DT mall, as far as I know

Less successful than Heritage Mall…. ?

 

[David A]

Portage Place in Winnipeg is in roughly the same position as City Centre. Hamilton’s Jackson Square (last I checked) was maybe about where City Centre was 8-10 years ago — not great but with a decent amount of amenities. Citi Plaza in London is worse off. I haven’t been but I’ve heard Cornwall Centre in Regina is very so-so, but still the healthiest remaining mall in the area.

When I think of successful downtown malls in Canada, I think of Vancouver, Victoria (unless that changed recently), Calgary, Saskatoon, Toronto, Ottawa, and Montreal. Pretty decent collection, especially compared with the States, but hardly like Edmonton is the only one missing out on this phenomenon. However, I will say what makes Edmonton stick out is that it’s the largest city with a dead downtown mall by a long shot.

WEM is definitely part of the picture, but I think Kingsway has had a more understated, but arguably bigger role at keeping Downtown Edmonton retail from thriving. Like, yeah, all the destination retail first popping up in Edmonton or only opening one location is mostly going to WEM, but what about the retailers that do branch out and feature in the region’s three “fortress” malls? Kingsway is too close to the core to make separate locations for destination stores viable in general. Uniqlo is looking at aggressively expanding across North America and just opened its 2nd Edmonton location at Southgate. You really think, if they open another one here, it’s going anywhere but Kingsway? And Kingsway’s proximity to the core will mean that there’s no way Downtown is getting a location. Rinse and repeat for Nike, Simons, Lululemon, Aritzia, Anthropologie, Apple Store, etc. Even a store like Urban Outfitters, known to try and have locations in more, well, urban locations, is far more likely to wind up on Whyte than Jasper or in City Centre.

Yes, I think the comparisons put this in context better. City Centre not the worst, but there is a lot of room for improvement, especially considering our city's size. I've been to Vancouver's and wish that was what City Centre could be. Prior to 2020 it was much closer to that.

I feel one big problem was for a number of years Kingsway was owned by the same owners as City Centre. After Kingsway lost Target, their focus seemed to be on filling that big gap. I feel this was to the detriment of City Centre at a critical time, then after that COVID came along and hit downtown especially hard. Fortunately, the mall has different owners now.

It is true major retailers are attracted to busier malls. However, the three biggest malls here are fairly full now, so I could see some retailers going to other malls if they can't easily get space or expand in those three, particularly if the core areas continue to recover from COVID.

Yes, Whyte Ave may attract certain things, but it never has really been a big location for the types of stores that locate in malls, unlike say Robson Street in Vancouver. I think climate is a factor in that. Yes, people do walk still outdoors in January here, but not so much as in warmer places.

 

[Yeggy]

City centre malls issues start at its built form. One whole side of it was blatantly hostile to the street. The parking feels sketchy and again adds to the hostile street scape.

I’d also say it was always void of the right type of product mix, but im sure the loading docks were ill suited for something like an urban ikea, or urban hardware store.

Making it a through way or so many office towers just meant it always felt like a transit corridor. The energy of the space inside was always one of movement, not of relaxed exploration.

Further more not having street level crossing under the pedway continues to be absurd. Meanwhile getting to the second floor pedway normally required a lot of back and forth walking.

Its also not talked about but there were also numerous suicides. People jumped internally from the top floor as well as from the top of the parkades externally.

 

[David A]

Have there never been major incidents that required the police to come and some or all of the mall was shut down elsewhere?

I recall a few at one high profile suburban mall, but it something happens downtown hey it must be worse.

 

[Yeggy]

Have there never been major incidents that required the police to come and some or all of the mall was shut down elsewhere?

I recall a few at one high profile suburban mall, but it something happens downtown hey it must be worse.

I dont quite follow you.

 

[ChazYEG]

I dont quite follow you.

I gather he's alluding to the fact that we've had incidents with the police at WEM and Southgate, but they never seem to get as much coverage and flack as when something happens in ECC.
This is actually a reflection of the general say things are perceived and reported in Edmonton. Bad shit happens in a fairly affluent suburb, like the hit that killed two in Ellerslie a few weeks ago, and it's always "an isolated incident and it's still super safe here", even though it's no that uncommon to have severe crimes in suburban areas, but a random hobo yells at half a dozen people in a DT LRT station and "our DT is crap and dangerous, no one is safe, run for your lives."

 

[David A]

Yes, that's it exactly.

 

[Yeggy]

I gather he's alluding to the fact that we've had incidents with the police at WEM and Southgate, but they never seem to get as much coverage and flack as when something happens in ECC.
This is actually a reflection of the general say things are perceived and reported in Edmonton. Bad shit happens in a fairly affluent suburb, like the hit that killed two in Ellerslie a few weeks ago, and it's always "an isolated incident and it's still super safe here", even though it's no that uncommon to have severe crimes in suburban areas, but a random hobo yells at half a dozen people in a DT LRT station and "our DT is crap and dangerous, no one is safe, run for your lives."

There was no coverage the day my tower was locked down ,a tower attached to the mall, the day death threats were called into our company. (TD).

There was no media called the days we saw bodies covered in sheets cause they jumped.

There is a lot that goes on DT that isnt blasted everywhere, that being said when city tv were and cbc is located DT and those organizations have/had their eyes literally on those streets, you cant blame them for covering dt issues.

I have seem many reports of WEM and dead people found in the lagoon, OD’s at rock n rides, issues with the prior night clubs… lets not forget the owners financial issues.

Kingsway had articles posted about nazi images sprayed on it.

So from a reporting standpoint I dont see much issue. I cant speak for how the public interprets them. We are, however, much more forgiving and biased towards spaces/places we view as ours. I suspect DT’s harshest critiques come from those who actually never go.

 

[scyeg]

I suspect DT’s harshest critiques come from those who actually never go.

 

[Gronk!]

1987 - Eatons Centre opens in what is now a ghostly ECC West

https://twitter.com/x/status/1731465534485434824