What do you think of this project?

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Will the council be voting on the project on Monday? If so, how do we see the vote shaking out? I am a bit worried right now.
 
edmontonidiot said:
Hi. I joined up as well after following this project, seems like a friendlier community than Twitter.

I'm confused that this project has gone this far without more input and involvement with indigenous peoples from the get-go. I think it could have cooled some of the city councilors reservations, specifically Aaron Paquette.

I'm not surprised that the city administration doesn't have more data on this supposed burial site though. I work in the nondestructive testing industry, I'm not certified for GPR though. I've seen it used, and my impression is it's pretty crude. I inspect ferromagnetic and paramagnetic metal, and we barely interpret our examinations anymore, it's too much liability. They keep bringing up GPR, but I'm not confident a technician or engineer, could extrapolate any more information from a GPR examination other than, dirt may have been disturbed here (or not). I doubt we will know for sure until sholves are in the ground.
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The challenge is that the site in question is covered in concrete & has a small structure on it so GPR before disturbance makes sense. It also right next to where 50ft down catwalks are in the plant. So I really wonder what could be under there. The archeologist's presentation was great! He's worked in the area on multiple occasions. I really think that human remains would he a deal breaker for everyone & that if they are under concrete that maybe isn't particularly respectful. But I get not moving them if that's the case.

Also there were many Indigenous voices who supported next steps yesterday, including people involved in the fight to gain recognition & designation of the cemetery, repatriate remains & current monitoring of anything EPCOR does on the site.

With all the HRIAs & the ongoing work PrarieSky has done building relationshios through protocol & ceremony as referenced by Indigenous leaders yesterday & the ongoing work of the City at River Crossing I think it's disingenuous a best to suggest there hasn't been consultation & it rejects the testimony of many Indigenous people who have been working on issues related to that land for decades. The rejection of this complexity doesn't do anyone any favors.
archited said:
Chief Darlene Misik -- Papaschase First Nation
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Yes!
XXIV94 said:
Will the council be voting on the project on Monday? If so, how do we see the vote shaking out? I am a bit worried right now.
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Looks like it, it's item 7.5.
Vote intention is a bit hard to assess. My guess:

Sohi (if he can be assured that everything will stop re: human remains I think he could support but he needs a very clear way to assure people of that) leaning no

Janz - no (honestly wondering if his anti-gondola petition doesn't violate the code of conduct - his current violation will be discussed by Council on Monday too - which could have some indirect influence to the positive since he was so oppositional on this & he's bound to be making their jobs harder because he keeps picking fights.
Rice - likely yes
Rutherford - likely no (much like Sohi needs something concrete she can point to re: burial grounds)
Stevenson - I was thinking yes, but Rob Houle was working in her office & is not a fan so maybe not?
Salvador - probably yes - she gets the process
Hamilton - probably yes
Cartmell - probably yes
Principe - probably yes
Wright - probably no
Knack - probably yes
Paquette - no
Tang - maybe yes? But not sure.

So there is a path based on this but likely requires some very clear communications with Stevenson & Sohi & Tang about steps that would be taken if likely human remains were located by GPR or test digs & a mechanism for them to assure their constituents. Some more comprehensive information re: the amount of work done in the area to date would be good for them to have in front of them too. (HRIAs River Crossing engagements etc) that could swing Rutherford as well I think?

It will be tight. If it's last item before a break it will be less likely, right after a break more likely to pass. (Decision fatigue makes people risk averse).

Super curious what others think. Listening on Monday will give us a better idea but by then it's too late.

I do think support letters expressing support for next steps and support for halting if there are human remains & encouraging robust consultation once these are in place might help. Maybe a checkpoint with Council as "for information" that gives them info during engagement/archeology prior to an actual public hearing.
 
I think that there is enough studied response to the Gondola vis-a-vis First Nations concerns that the less brave of our "fearless leaders" will try to punt this down the road under the cover of "more study is needed". Sadly, I don't expect a clear resolution of this on Monday or anytime soon. Gondola may suffer death by a thousand cuts. Incidentally, I listened to the whole show on Wednesday. Some of the First Nation members were actually acerbic in their dissertations referring to "white capitalist men" (as opposed to non-white socialist women?)
 
My letter to my councillor (anne s):

Hi Anne,

You have undoubtedly gotten a ton of feedback on this issue so I'll try to be brief, but I thought it would be important for me to add my two cents because it looks like this project may be in trouble and it appears you are on the fence about which way to go.

I should start by saying that I am completely in support of any efforts on reconciliation and I'm glad that the proponents of the gondola are being asked tough questions on this front. At the same time I am worried that we may be missing the broader potential of this project and not looking hard enough for solutions that will allow this to go forward.

My wife and I (and our young kids) have friends in cities across Canada and we are always asked why we stay in Edmonton instead of moving to 'more exciting places'. We love Edmonton, but some days I do wonder if Edmonton will ever achieve it's potential to be a great city. Of course I don't need to tell you that the river valley is our greatest asset, yet it really is very inaccessible for many of us (including people with small children). We also have a huge asset in the beautiful powerplant that may well end up demolished if we don't have a practical way of activating and accessing it. This would be a massive loss to the city. Of course there is also the potential of bringing our city's Indigenous history in Rossdale to life...what an amazing tourist draw that could be!

But we need to be realistic: how often does a group come along willing to invest over $100m of their own money (and $1.1m per year after that) in a project that will make it possible to

a) facilitate access to the river valley
b) save the powerplant by providing opportunities for activation
c) transport people to what could be a hub of education about our Indigenous history (rather than leaving it quite inaccessible and reducing opportunities for education)

All without any public money. And I should be clear that I'm not involved with the project in any way. I just want to see my city realize it's potential without always getting bogged down in debates that end up in inertia. I would like to have cool places to take visitors and show off the beauty of Edmonton. I would like to have (accessible) places to take my kids and grandparents to soak in the Indigenous history of our city.

Is leaving things as they are really going to help with reconciliation? Or is is moving forward (carefully) going to provide more opportunities for reconciliation? I would argue for the second... we can find a way forward that works for just about everyone. There will always be voices in opposition, but I think we have to be cautious to also be cognizant of the fact that there are people who are simply opposed to the gondola for whatever reason and are simply using reconciliation as a way to shoot down this project.

I know you'll ultimately consider everything and make the decision that you feel is right; I've watched your council career with interest so far and I know that you are thoughtful and smart. Keep it up :)

Hope this helps in some small way.

Have a great day and weekend!
 
Sunny1 said:
The challenge is that the site in question is covered in concrete & has a small structure on it so GPR before disturbance makes sense. It also right next to where 50ft down catwalks are in the plant. So I really wonder what could be under there. The archeologist's presentation was great! He's worked in the area on multiple occasions. I really think that human remains would he a deal breaker for everyone & that if they are under concrete that maybe isn't particularly respectful. But I get not moving them if that's the case.

Also there were many Indigenous voices who supported next steps yesterday, including people involved in the fight to gain recognition & designation of the cemetery, repatriate remains & current monitoring of anything EPCOR does on the site.

With all the HRIAs & the ongoing work PrarieSky has done building relationshios through protocol & ceremony as referenced by Indigenous leaders yesterday & the ongoing work of the City at River Crossing I think it's disingenuous a best to suggest there hasn't been consultation & it rejects the testimony of many Indigenous people who have been working on issues related to that land for decades. The rejection of this complexity doesn't do anyone any favors.
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Agreed, it was chosen because it is non-destructive. It’s not without limitations though, and the results can vary. My partner works with radiographers. You could have 3 different radiographers look at the same film and interpret it differently, not to mention clients. With GPR, you’re looking at pixilated, grainy, hard to understand pictures of soil composition. You’re not looking high resolution pictures of skeletons. It’s s great tool, and interesting form of inspection but it’s not what some people may think it is.

I wasn’t suggesting Prairie Sky didn’t have involvement from indigenous peoples. I was suggesting it wasn’t enough, which several city counselors echoed in the city chamber meetings. This could have easily been led by indigenous people. Some of the best, well run inspection companies in Canada are aboriginal. Metalogic and IRIS NDT come to mind, which coincidentally have head offices here in Edmonton.

I like the project and think it’s good idea. I feel like anything that brings more people downtown should be considered. I just hope it doesn’t come at a cost to indigenous people.
 
Prairie Sky Gondola Announces Cree Name for the Project – ᐋᓱᐊᐧᐦᐅᓈᐣ (âsowahonân)

Chosen in a traditional naming ceremony, the name translates to “crossing of the river”

August 12, 2022 (Edmonton, AB) – Dr. Dwayne Donald, a professor in the Faculty of Education at the University of Alberta, a descendant of Papaschase Cree Nation and a ceremonial helper of Elder Bob Cardinal of the Enoch Cree Nation, announced the new name of Prairie Sky Gondola at a public meeting for Edmonton City Council’s Executive Committee on August 10, 2022.

ᐋᓱᐊᐧᐦᐅᓈᐣ

âsowahonân gondola

In English, âsowahonân translates to “crossing of the river.” In April of this year, the Cree name was given to the gondola during a sweat lodge ceremony at Enoch Cree Nation.

Indigenous engagement and participation in the project are of the highest importance to the gondola project and its proponents. Indigenous archeologist, Cody Sharphead, will lead as the archeological advisor for the project.

Jeffrey Hansen-Carlson, President and CEO of Prairie Sky Gondola, says: “We deeply respect the cultural importance of Rossdale Flats to Indigenous peoples and fully recognize that, as we work to move the project forward, sincere and robust Indigenous engagement is of paramount importance. Seeking guidance for the name of our project in ceremony is consistent with our unwavering intent to be proactive, genuine, and respectful.”

Prairie Sky Gondola is honoured to have been gifted an Indigenous name in ceremony and sees this as an early step in a journey towards a common purpose and advancing the cause of reconciliation.
 
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