occidentalcapital
Senior Member
Vancouver has basically become a gated city, with highly intense poverty in areas, and tens of thousands of people leaving. It doesn't seem like a model anymore.
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- Thread starter Daveography
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IanO
Superstar
It's an incredibly desirable place to live, learn, work and play. That said, it's become out of range for many for a variety of reasons, but continues to be a top destination or desire for many Canadians and internationals.
dunno
Active Member
I think it can still be a model in urban design and transportation planning, but the rest of it we can do without.
Tbone84
New Member
In terms of transportation, a better model for me would be Montreal.
dunno
Active Member
Ok, and? I never said Vancouver was the best model, just a model. But yes, Montreal is a better model. My point still stands.
TAS
Senior Member
I'm less impressed by Vancouver the more I've gone to other coastal cities. Yes, it is definitely in an enviable location, but it's buildings, residential for instance, are kind of monotonous to me.
Oslo, where I visited recently, has a similar population and density I believe, and there is so much more diversity and style in the design and architecture. Great vibe. Here's some examples:
Oslo, where I visited recently, has a similar population and density I believe, and there is so much more diversity and style in the design and architecture. Great vibe. Here's some examples:
Tbone84
New Member
Your point is valid. But for me in my opinion Edmonton should aim higher and use Montreal as a model because it's the superior transportation system in the country
TAS
Senior Member
Sorry, a few more.
David A
Senior Member
Nice place to visit, but for so many/most - couldn't afford to live there. So it is a failure in that regard.
Gronk!
Senior Member
I can say the same thing about Calgary. There's least 2 or 3 SRC posters who obsess over that city. If you have somehow been operating under the delusion that Calgary is a marvelous utopia and the centre of the universe then just pack up and move there already. Otherwise, let's focus on making Edmonton greater than it is already, warts and all.
ChazYEG
Senior Member
I don't know if reading livability and Vancouver in the same sentence makes me wanna laugh or puke. Affordability (and not just real estate/rentals) is a key piece of livability, and Vancouver is the LEAST affordable place in Canada, by any measure you look at.
It's urban form may be good, but it's far from revolutionary, and while there's lots we could learn from it, there's plenty of other places that have, recently, become much better role models for this.
No, I do admit I have a very strong bias against Vancouver (I absolutely loathe the place, and that is no secret to anyone here, but at least I admit my bias), but I do try to be as objective as I can, and from a very pragmatic point, the city is regressing (or at least stalling progress) quite a bit in terms of some issues we've been discussing here, such as safety, vibrancy, homelessness, etc... It's still leaps and bounds Edmonton in transit and general urban environment (especially from a physical standpoint), but long gone are the days of Vancouver being this wonderland you seem to believe it is.
ChazYEG
Senior Member
Agreed.
Objectively, the only thing Calgary has fared significantly better than Edmonton, from a lifestyle/urbanism point of view, is their downtown. And even so, I still believe Edmonton has better bones to work with, especially due to the underground section of the LRT and the absence of freeways. Other than that, neither city is really a great example of a great urban lifestyle focused city.
On the flip side, Edmonton's bike network is growing to be substantially better, our LRT, albeit smaller, is more efficient and better planned, our parks system is a whole order of magnitude above theirs (thank you River Valley <3) and our cultural apparatus is at least as good, if not better.
ChazYEG
Senior Member
Incredibly desirable seems a little bit of an overstatement. I can think of at least a dozen cities in English North America that are more desirable, in pretty much all aspects.
One of the reasons why it remains a destination so desired by internationals, especially, is how good their PR is, and how well they capitalize on their past success. They're still reaping the rewards of when they were, in fact, on of the most desirable places to live in North America.
My take is that it has become overhyped and overpriced. It's still a great city, but far from worthy of the price tag it carries, especially with the growth in social disorder issues it has experienced in the past couple of years. The absurd costs of living in Vancouver bring it down a few notches in the desirability index, considering that to be effectively desirable, people have to be actually able to live there.
dunno
Active Member
Oslo is actually smaller than Vancouver! At 1.5 million in the metro area, it's basically Edmonton-sized. Europe is absolutely a place that Edmonton/Canada in general should take more inspiration from in many ways but we're too invested in our North American bubble. Rotterdam is another great example of how you can create a captivating urbanism even if it's contemporary. Also in the ballpark of Edmonton's size.
I agree that Vancouver is less remarkable the more I spend time in other locales. I hadn't been in a long time before this summer, and thought I would like it a lot more than I did. It wasn't bad, and I can understand why people here go frequently (quick), but it just made me think about how pretty much all of the other major West Coast cities (except maybe San Diego) are so much more interesting. And within Canada, Toronto and Montreal are significantly better.
Still, with urban design, they do have some good points about TODs, public realm improvements, and creating a denser, more vibrant region. Not the best in every single way always, but then again no city is like that.
IanO
Superstar
They key here is to take what Vancouver has done well and apply it, replicate it and adapt it.
Edmonton still struggles at that for a variety of reasons.
Time to raise the bar and expectations.
Edmonton still struggles at that for a variety of reasons.
Time to raise the bar and expectations.