What do you think of this project?

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_urbanite said:
Edmonton district energy system scaled back from original plans, but will still cost more

"It's now estimated to cost 27 per cent more to build: $35.9 million up from the $28.2 million projected in February 2021...The project, under construction at 102A Avenue and 97th Street, was originally designed to generate heat and cool air from a natural gas plant. It's been reduced to heat only, a change city and Epcor project managers came up with last June, and included in the update to city council this week."
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Oh Edmonton. Some of the quotes in here:

"It's not the same leading-edge, energy-efficient thing that we were trying to get to,"

and

"Mayor Amarjeet Sohi also expressed reservations about the changes, but noted that administration is trying to get the private sector on board to make it more financially feasible."

So let me understand, this is another half-baked project by the geniuses at the city and despite knowing that this project will do half of what it was originally intended to do (ironically, which was to improve energy efficiency), the city still expects the private sector to buy in? "Hey private sector, we know this doesnt work like it was supposed to but we need to you to be onboard anyway so we can make it financially feasible."

Sounds very similar to how the city likes to spin doctor Botchford too. An energy efficiency project that isnt being executed how envisioned but we still need the private sector to believe in the vision.
 
CaptainBL said:
Oh Edmonton. Some of the quotes in here:

"It's not the same leading-edge, energy-efficient thing that we were trying to get to,"

and

"Mayor Amarjeet Sohi also expressed reservations about the changes, but noted that administration is trying to get the private sector on board to make it more financially feasible."

So let me understand, this is another half-baked project by the geniuses at the city and despite knowing that this project will do half of what it was originally intended to do (ironically, which was to improve energy efficiency), the city still expects the private sector to buy in? "Hey private sector, we know this doesnt work like it was supposed to but we need to you to be onboard anyway so we can make it financially feasible."

Sounds very similar to how the city likes to spin doctor Botchford too. An energy efficiency project that isnt being executed how envisioned but we still need the private sector to believe in the vision.
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if something goes wrong and the system goes down (and something will always go wrong at some point either at the plant or with the distribution), in our climate that could be catastrophic for a building in very short order in the winter. that means the building still needs to install and maintain its own plant with sufficient capacity at which point there isn’t any compelling incentive to add the complexity of connecting to a central plant.
 
District energy systems are used in other large cities. I know TO had one, I worked beside it for a year. And TO has a central cooling system. using deep lake water. The Technology is there. Going into this I don't think the city had a proper plan. Currently there are only a couple of buildings downtown that are ready to tie into the system since they were planned when this project was first discussed. I think the reason the private sector has not bought in yet is because its still a few years away. And they would require running the piping through already built up streets. I know Stantec Tower is ready for the system. The infrastructure was built into the tower. But now you would have to dig a Trench from the DEC to Stantec.
 
Airboy said:
District energy systems are used in other large cities. I know TO had one, I worked beside it for a year. And TO has a central cooling system. using deep lake water. The Technology is there. Going into this I don't think the city had a proper plan. Currently there are only a couple of buildings downtown that are ready to tie into the system since they were planned when this project was first discussed. I think the reason the private sector has not bought in yet is because its still a few years away. And they would require running the piping through already built up streets. I know Stantec Tower is ready for the system. The infrastructure was built into the tower. But now you would have to dig a Trench from the DEC to Stantec.
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they're used here as well as in other cities if we include the u of a and the airport (i'm not sure if the latest upgrades at royal alexandria qualify as a "local central plant")...

i was also involved in the conversion of a couple of buildings in vancouver from internal boilers generating hot water to using steam from the central plant (which is where i learned that a backhoe in the lane can leave you without heat and that when sh!t happens at the main plant the whole system can be down for some time).

my concern, particularly in regard to heat, is the redundancy and fail safes that need to be an integral and reliable part of any central system if individual buildings are not going to require their own back-up systems and if they have to provide their own back-up systems whether it still makes sense to also connect to a central distribution system...
 
I forgot about Uof A and the Alex. Add Nait main campus as well. Hell I've been in all of them. I've walked the tunnels.

Safe to say any building that is going to be added will have its original system set aside for back up. I just wished they would have kept the cooling portion. The airport had a major boiler blowout years ago. we were able to jury rig the system to operate until the blown boiler was brought back on line (6months).

Was at a performance at Winspear yesterday. ESO rusty musicians. (My wife was playing). Anyway they are doing a complete seat replacement and electrical upgrades to the main theater. 1/2 the main floor seats were removed. That is the closest I've ever sat to that stage.
 
I have been using Daikin VRV-IV-H system on all of my projects for both Heating and Cooling. The system is very efficient, sustainable, and reliable -- all electric.
 
Airboy said:
I forgot about Uof A and the Alex. Add Nait main campus as well. Hell I've been in all of them. I've walked the tunnels.

Safe to say any building that is going to be added will have its original system set aside for back up. I just wished they would have kept the cooling portion. The airport had a major boiler blowout years ago. we were able to jury rig the system to operate until the blown boiler was brought back on line (6months).

Was at a performance at Winspear yesterday. ESO rusty musicians. (My wife was playing). Anyway they are doing a complete seat replacement and electrical upgrades to the main theater. 1/2 the main floor seats were removed. That is the closest I've ever sat to that stage.
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Agree it would likely be supplemental to buildings current heating systems. That is how CHP retrofits I've seen have been implemented. One issue that could arise is that buildings with steam distribution are less likely to benefit with a hot water district energy system - due to required conversion to hot water at the building.
 
archited said:
I have been using Daikin VRV-IV-H system on all of my projects for both Heating and Cooling. The system is very efficient, sustainable, and reliable -- all electric.
Click to expand...
I haven't seen them on project here. I've seen the smaller units but not the large ones.
 
_urbanite said:
Edmonton district energy system scaled back from original plans, but will still cost more

"It's now estimated to cost 27 per cent more to build: $35.9 million up from the $28.2 million projected in February 2021...The project, under construction at 102A Avenue and 97th Street, was originally designed to generate heat and cool air from a natural gas plant. It's been reduced to heat only, a change city and Epcor project managers came up with last June, and included in the update to city council this week."
Click to expand...
So how often has the city over-promised something, then under-delivered on a project?

I only know of the Capital Line South Expansion, and the aforementioned Blatchford project.
 
Hopefully we finally see some cladding on this soon…
IMG_4970.jpeg
 
Some brave soul should go right up to the construction fence (where the information board is shown in the above pic) and take photos of the footings for the exterior wall -- that would be interesting!!!
 
It is coming along. Every time I go by, I do notice more done, but it is progressing slowly, sure isn't going to win any speed records.
 
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