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What do you believe should be done on the Eglinton Corridor?

  • Do Nothing

    Votes: 5 1.3%

  • Build the Eglinton Crosstown LRT as per Transit City

    Votes: 140 36.9%

  • Revive the Eglinton Subway

    Votes: 226 59.6%

  • Other (Explain in post)

    Votes: 8 2.1%
  • Total voters
    379
Tuscani01 said:
Then again, the TTC isn't saying Transit City is going to be like the St. Clair ROW. Im assuming and hoping thats the case.
Click to expand...
They say the construction isn't gong to be like St. Clair - I've seen nothing that says why the vehicles will run 2 to 2.5 faster than on St. Clair - and if I was opposed to somthing like the Sheppard East LRT, I'd be appealing it to MOE, based on it being technically incorrect, because the projected travel times are unrealistic compared to similiar systems the TTC has already constructed.
 
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^^St Clair would have been a great showcase for TC, but it simply wasn't. The TTC said mainy times in announcements and reports that stations will be farther apart, they will use POP, They will have transit signal priority...

And let's not forget that downtown streetcar lines have to deal will dozens more traffic lights than suburban arterials. I really think that Finch West, Eglinton, Don Mills, and some of the Scarborough Malvern are great projects, and I rally support them, Sheppard and Jane however, are horrible transit planning =(
 
DavidH said:
Then why has Transit City, from its earliest announcement, been called a "rapid transit" system.

There is a name for this, and it's called "bait and switch". Instead of calling it rapid transit, we should simply be calling it "reliability improvements".
Click to expand...

Rapid in this context means "not stuck in traffic". If you believe the reports, traffic on those streets will be down to 11km/h by 2030 without any changes in the streets.

This would make the transit quite rapid as compared to the traffic around it. Of course, traffic should not suffer that much if drivers change to using the LRT.


Anyway, marketing is marketing and almost always exaggerates reality. Selling transit to Torontonians is actually far more difficult than building it. Transit City, the marketing plan, was focused on selling it to Torontonians so they didn't put up a huge fight (see St. Clair) should funding come along.

Given the quotes from Eglinton business owners "It'll be painful but worth it" I would say transit city, the marketing plan, has been a huge success.
 
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rbt said:
Given the quotes from Eglinton business owners "It'll be painful but worth it" I would say transit city, the marketing plan, has been a huge success.
Click to expand...
I bet they wouldn't be saying that, if they were getting a surface Transit City route!
 
Ridership doesn't justify a subway

That's TTC argument but let's compare...really

Toronto:2,503,281
Chicago:2,836,659

TORONTO
Daily ridership ***just to give us a rough idea**
2007-2008

Yonge-University-Spadina
672,390 (avg. weekday)
32 Stations and 30.2Km

Bloor-Danforth
484,000 (avg. weekday)
31 Stations and 26.2 Km

Sheppard
45,860 (avg. weekday)
5 Stations and 5.5 Km

Scarborough RT
43,770 (avg. weekday)
6 Stations and 6.4 Km


CHICAGO

Red Line
approx. 230,000 (avg. weekday boardings)
34 Stations
37.7 KM

Blue Line
approx. 147,000 (avg. weekday boardings)
33 Stations
55.7 KM

Brown Line
approx. 90,000 (avg. weekday boardings)
28 Stations
18.3 KM

Orange Line
approx. 59,000 (avg. weekday boardings)
17 stations
20.1 KM

Pink Line
approx. 26,000 (avg. weekday boardings)
22 Stations
18 KM

Purple Line
approx. 31,000 (avg. weekday boardings including Purple Express)
19 Stations
24 KM

Yellow Line
approx. 5,000 (avg. weekday boardings)
2 Stations
5.1 KM
*******************************************

Is it me or our useless low ridership Sheppard Subway has more ridership than Pink, purple and Yellow line?

Sheppard a 5 station and 5.5KM has more ridership than a
22 station line with 18 KM (Pink) or (Purple) 24 KM and 19 stations. Imagine a Complete Sheppard line.

May I add that the trains have similar capacity?

Since Eglington should have more ridership than Sheppard, it should be at least at the same level as the Orange line or could even rival the brown line.

By comparing our network with a city who has slighlty more inhabitants than Toronto, I come to the conclusion that it's not only about ridership but those in charge right now have a problem with subway technology.

I would prefer they say ''We don't believe in subways'' instead of saying: ''well, the ridership doesn't justify it''.

Of course, you guys are free to refute my theory.
 
Ansem said:
That's TTC argument but let's compare...really

Toronto:2,503,281
Chicago:2,836,659

TORONTO
Daily ridership ***just to give us a rough idea**
2007-2008

...BLAHBLAHBLAH....

Is it me or our useless low ridership Sheppard Subway has more ridership than Pink, purple and Yellow line?

Sheppard a 5 station and 5.5KM has more ridership than a
22 station line with 18 KM (Pink) or (Purple) 24 KM and 19 stations. Imagine a Complete Sheppard line.

May I add that the trains have similar capacity?

Since Eglington should have more ridership than Sheppard, it should be at least at the same level as the Orange line or could even rival the brown line.

By comparing our network with a city who has slighlty more inhabitants than Toronto, I come to the conclusion that it's not only about ridership but those in charge right now have a problem with subway technology.

I would prefer they say ''We don't believe in subways'' instead of saying: ''well, the ridership doesn't justify it''.

Of course, you guys are free to refute my theory.
Click to expand...
Naw, I agree with you. If we build Eglinton as a subway now, it's ridership will definitely increase, the same as if we build it as LRT. It would also alleviate the Bloor line.

Basically, the only reason B/D and YUS have such high numbers compared to chicago's (and pretty much any big city) lines is that the B/D and YUS are basically our ONLY lines, ergo almost everyone gets funneled into them at some point.

On topic of signal priority I really don't understand why we don't have it... It's pretty stupid that we get separated median and whatnot, but we aren't better than regular cars when it comes to intersections! I was thinking of starting a petition to get signal priority on our LRTs, or at poll here at least. Private ROWs is only half of LRT. The second half is signal priority and without that, Spadina, Harborfront and St. Clair don't cut it as LRT.
 
Oh, I think your bang on regarding Sheppard. We've discussed aspects of this previously. Sheppard ridership is almost identical to the SRT (and growing), yet many say that the SRT is not big enough, and should be subway. Ridership per route km is higher on Sheppard subway than any bus line or streecar line in the city (though Spadina may challenge it). Sheppard ridership per route km is only half that of Danforth - many would have you believe it is much, much, lower. And of course there was the realisation by TTC a couple of years ago that it would be cheaper to run the subway, than run buses.

I don't think the argument that Sheppard ridership doesn't support a subway holds water. The question really should be does the extension of it support ridership, and is it worth the $ spent on this, when that could be prioritized elsewhere.

And I seem to recall the old TTC studies indicated that the ridership was very good all the way to Victoria Park - but after that it was questionable. And perhaps that should be the focus of what is done now on Sheppard.

Eglinton though is a different story. Clearly no one is going to fund a $9-billion subway - so best you'd get is another stubway that won't be finished for 30 years.
 
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Ansem said:
I would prefer they say ''We don't believe in subways'' instead of saying: ''well, the ridership doesn't justify it''.

Of course, you guys are free to refute my theory.
Click to expand...

Chicago's budgetary situation is quite different than ours:

"The city of Chicago has the highest total sales tax of all major U.S. cities.[39] It is also one of the most complex. 10.25% is levied on all non-perishable goods purchased, while 2% is levied on qualifying food, drugs, medicines and medical appliances.[39] The Illinois Department of Revenue collects a 3% Chicago Soft Drink Tax and a 1% Metropolitan Pier and Exposition Authority (MPEA) "Food and Beverage Tax", on prepared food and beverage purchases in the downtown area (These "downtown" boundaries are: Surf Street on the north, Ashland Avenue on the west, Stevenson Expressway (I-55) on the south, & Lake Michigan on the east. Furthermore, O'Hare and Midway airports also fall under the 1% MPEA tax district).[40] In addition, the Chicago Department of Revenue collects additional sales taxes on items such as fountain drinks, bottled water, liquor, and cigarettes.[41]"

Can you imagine if Miller proposed those kinds of taxes for Toronto? People would freak the hell out. The Sun's front page would be the mayor in front of a red star with hammer + sickle.

I think Toronto has resigned itself to LRT in a lot of cases because no one believes we'll ever get funding for anything more than a few kilometres of subway. They've seen too many subway plans either not get funding or get limited funding, then get canceled due to government change. LRT feels possible.

It's not always a question of what's better/faster/more efficient for transit in Toronto. Sometimes it's just a question of what's more likely to actually get paid for and built.
 
Don't worry - the only Toronto newspaper showing readership growth made the same mistake. (And a whole lot more!)
 

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