doady
Senior Member
I don't like the idea that neighbourhoods should never change and that measures should be taken to prevent any change that might occur. That is such a MikeToronto point of view.
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- Thread starter Dan416
- Start date
kettal
Banned
That's right. Everybody who is associated with a particular party thinks 100% the same on every possible issue.
Dan416
Senior Member
That's right. Everybody who is associated with a particular party thinks 100% the same on every possible issue.
But of course. Why else have political parties if your views aren't going to be identical?
Second_in_pie
Senior Member
That just about hits the nail on the head. I think that ART would work rather well on Eglinton, with an underground section in the middle and a monarail-like raised section on the non-underground portions of the route. If built properly, I think it would be just as good as a subway. The LRT that is being proposed right now really doesn't seem to belong on Eglinton, both due to speed and ridership (ridership potential as well)Thank you Tuscani01. Exactly what I was looking for.
I'm just sorting out the arguments for RT over LRT in the Eglinton Crosstown. From my understanding the major differences b/w classic RT and LRT is speed and capacity. It appears as though the station spacing is closer to subway spacing, so speed - especially in the underground section - isn't the primary issue. That leads me to believe its a capacity issue and I'm wondering if Eglinton demands a capacity that an LRT cannot bear and hence the desire for a subway. Or maybe I'm missing the point entirely
TOareaFan
Superstar
Sorry, now I am confused.....I thought the projects that got funding yesterday were prioritized because they were shovel ready and construction could start within the year......this seems to imply there is still a debate over the kind of system (LRT v monorail)....if we haven't solved that yet how can this be shovel ready and under construction within the year?
Voltz
Senior Member
I think the LRT on eglinton will do just fine with the potential ridership on eglinton, particularly with it's underground section.
They could also elevate the outer sections the LRT, just as easily as a ALRT line. Not than it would be needed.
waterloowarrior
Senior Member
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/612954
Go-ahead for LRT sparks excitement, worry on Eglinton
TC asks for patience, says construction start at least 14 months away
April 03, 2009
TESS KALINOWSKI
TRANSPORTATION REPORTER
There was excitement along Eglinton Ave. yesterday amid news of the province's promise to pay for a $4.6 billion light rail line from Kennedy station to the airport.
But there were also flourishes of skepticism and plenty of questions from people who work and live along Eglinton.
Officials from the TTC and the province asked for patience.
Some questions, particularly around construction timelines, are still pending further study, said TTC chair Adam Giambrone.
It will be "at least six months" before the TTC can say exactly where and when the shovels will go into the ground, but that's not unusual, he said.
The 32.5-kilometre Eglinton light rail line was part of an almost $9 billion transit funding package announced by Queen's Park on Wednesday. It is the cornerstone of the city's Transit City plan, which includes seven LRT lines.
Construction is expected to begin next year, with an anticipated completion date of 2016.
Another line on Finch West also received support, along with a plan to refurbish and expand the Scarborough Rapid Transit line.
The three projects are expected to create 86,000 jobs, according to the Ministry of Transportation.
But what's planned as the first Transit City line, on Sheppard East, has not been funded yet, even though groundbreaking is anticipated this fall for completion in 2012 or 2013.
"We're 14 months out from the earliest construction on Eglinton," said Giambrone. "But (construction) will not just start from one end and go to the other. It will have multiple points."
Work will be taking place at the east- and west-end portions of the line and the central underground stretch at the same time.
Several options are being considered for how Eglinton will run to the airport. "I've seen six possible routes," Giambrone said.
York Eglinton Business Improvement Area chair Nick Alampi admits he is excited about what light rail could do for the neighbourhood on Eglinton near Oakwood Ave., where he and his sister own a tuxedo shop. But he's also apprehensive that the subway will take business off the street.
"We want an assurance the development is also going to allow business owners to prosper. Not only is it putting subway stations in the key locations ... but that there will be some return for businesses."
KEY DETAILS
Q. Why isn't the city building a subway along Eglinton Ave.?
Anticipated ridership for the line doesn't justify a subway, according to the TTC. It expects a demand for 5,400 passengers per hour in one direction by 2031. About 10,000 people per hour is considered the threshold for a subway; 8,000 people per hour is the level at which the TTC considers the technology used by Scarborough Rapid Transit.
Q. Then why is about one-third of the Eglinton line being tunnelled between Leslie and Keele Sts.?
The street isn't wide enough to accommodate the streetcar right-of-way and two lanes of traffic travelling in both directions.
Q. Why are LRT stops located farther apart than existing bus stops?
Simply put, more stops slow down the LRT. On average, stops on street-level sections will be about 500 metres apart.
On the 13-kilometre underground section, stations will be 850 metres apart.
Go-ahead for LRT sparks excitement, worry on Eglinton
TC asks for patience, says construction start at least 14 months away
April 03, 2009
TESS KALINOWSKI
TRANSPORTATION REPORTER
There was excitement along Eglinton Ave. yesterday amid news of the province's promise to pay for a $4.6 billion light rail line from Kennedy station to the airport.
But there were also flourishes of skepticism and plenty of questions from people who work and live along Eglinton.
Officials from the TTC and the province asked for patience.
Some questions, particularly around construction timelines, are still pending further study, said TTC chair Adam Giambrone.
It will be "at least six months" before the TTC can say exactly where and when the shovels will go into the ground, but that's not unusual, he said.
The 32.5-kilometre Eglinton light rail line was part of an almost $9 billion transit funding package announced by Queen's Park on Wednesday. It is the cornerstone of the city's Transit City plan, which includes seven LRT lines.
Construction is expected to begin next year, with an anticipated completion date of 2016.
Another line on Finch West also received support, along with a plan to refurbish and expand the Scarborough Rapid Transit line.
The three projects are expected to create 86,000 jobs, according to the Ministry of Transportation.
But what's planned as the first Transit City line, on Sheppard East, has not been funded yet, even though groundbreaking is anticipated this fall for completion in 2012 or 2013.
"We're 14 months out from the earliest construction on Eglinton," said Giambrone. "But (construction) will not just start from one end and go to the other. It will have multiple points."
Work will be taking place at the east- and west-end portions of the line and the central underground stretch at the same time.
Several options are being considered for how Eglinton will run to the airport. "I've seen six possible routes," Giambrone said.
York Eglinton Business Improvement Area chair Nick Alampi admits he is excited about what light rail could do for the neighbourhood on Eglinton near Oakwood Ave., where he and his sister own a tuxedo shop. But he's also apprehensive that the subway will take business off the street.
"We want an assurance the development is also going to allow business owners to prosper. Not only is it putting subway stations in the key locations ... but that there will be some return for businesses."
KEY DETAILS
Q. Why isn't the city building a subway along Eglinton Ave.?
Anticipated ridership for the line doesn't justify a subway, according to the TTC. It expects a demand for 5,400 passengers per hour in one direction by 2031. About 10,000 people per hour is considered the threshold for a subway; 8,000 people per hour is the level at which the TTC considers the technology used by Scarborough Rapid Transit.
Q. Then why is about one-third of the Eglinton line being tunnelled between Leslie and Keele Sts.?
The street isn't wide enough to accommodate the streetcar right-of-way and two lanes of traffic travelling in both directions.
Q. Why are LRT stops located farther apart than existing bus stops?
Simply put, more stops slow down the LRT. On average, stops on street-level sections will be about 500 metres apart.
On the 13-kilometre underground section, stations will be 850 metres apart.
TOareaFan
Superstar
So, we have one arm of the government telling us this line got priority funding because it was shovel ready and construction could start within a year.......and another saying it is "at least" 14 months away and any decision on timelines are "at least six months" away.
As Bill Maher says...NEW RULE....when buying our votes with our money....get your stories straight!!!
As Bill Maher says...NEW RULE....when buying our votes with our money....get your stories straight!!!
confusion
Active Member
Exactly! This is why a subway is needed. Ridership will definitely grow more than the numbers provided along this corridor, especially for those who currently take the Bloor line to go east-west.
nfitz
Superstar
If they end up using the Skytrain technology, then travel times would be the same as the subway - and perhaps better given the average travel times are faster on the SRT than on any of the 3 subways. And I've heard no suggestion that the LRT will be any slower than subway if they grade-separate.
Prometheus The Supremo
►Member №41+⅜◄
TOareaFan
Superstar
Pardon my ignorance....what is that?
DavidH
Senior Member
It's a Metrolinx process that each project is undergoing. It looks at several options and reviews costs and benefits of each. In the case of Eglinton, it is supposed to look at variations in the length of the grade-separated segment.
So far, BCAs have been released for VIVA and SRT.You can see them by going to http://www.metrolinx.com/en/Projects.aspx and clicking the "Benefits Cases" link in the main text.
TOareaFan
Superstar
Thanks.....good explanation.
No need to tell you, I am sure, that I am tying this into my whole thought process about this week's announcement of funding being a circumvention of M'linx' process (I mean, the provinced announces funding, puts an amount on it and M'linx hasn't even finished this?...come on!) as well as trying to define (prompted by Mr Giambrone's comments) what shovel ready means.
DavidH
Senior Member
Undoubtedly, although I suppose the "escape clause" is that these projects were already prioritized by Metrolinx, and they are allowing the processes to continue.
But between this and the new legislation, it's easy to see the province taking a much firmer hand at the controls, for better or worse.