[Second_in_pie]

Really, there isn't actually that huge a market for Eglinton as a crosstown line. Sure, there'll be some riders going from random point to random point, but it won't be the mass of Scarborough to Pearson trips that the TTC sold the line as having. But that's exactly the same as the B-D; the masses don't go from Kipling Station to Kennedy, but lots of people go from Kipling and Kennedy to other points. Eglinton will see the same thing as that, if not more. It's got the Airport which, while maybe not attracting huge amounts of passengers in Scarborough, will surely get a lot of people west of Yonge at least, as well as anyone close on the Yonge or Spadina lines. It'll intercept a large number of medium-ridership bus routes, many of who's passengers would switch to Eglinton. It'll also extend the RT network's range of cover further into the suburbs, attracting more riders. A LRT just can't do that, from a psychological and physical capacity/time standpoint. It's needed for such an important corridor that Eglinton is.

A subway on Eglinton will be needed, and if a real subway is to cost $220 million/km, a trenched Richview subway could cost no more than $200 million/km, probably around double that of the LRT that's being built at $150-170. For the relatively huge increase in speed, network reliability, psychological draw, and not having to worry about future capacity concerns, that's a pretty good deal for perhaps the second most important corridor in the city (after Yonge.) Eglinton could support very high density nodal development that, while maybe not being the kind of pretty European avenues that TC sells, would be almost fully transit oriented, and is an opportunity that almost no other corridor in the city has along most of it's length.

 

[Rainforest]

Ideally, I'd like to see a pair of routes: LRT along Eglinton to take care of local trips, and frequent GO Express on the North Toronto sub. The latter would be faster than subway for long-haul trips, handle the majority of such trips, and hence ensure that the LRT never runs into capacity problems.

But the problem is that the frequent GO Express on the North Toronto sub is not even being considered. We don't know if it is feasible, how much it would cost, does the CP need a bypass and how much that bypass would cost.

Those 4.6 billion allocated for Eglinton, are the only chance for the time being, to create a new high-speed, high-capacity E-W route north of Bloor.

So, should we build subway on Eglinton in this situation? Probably, yes.

It is not at risk of having low ridership. Two E-W lines across the middle of the city (Bloor and Eglinon) would see the passenger flow distributed more or less evenly between them. Not necessarily 50% : 50%, but perhaps 60% : 40% or so.

 

[Rainforest]

And it almost always will. It is hard to serve a destination that has relatively low demand from almost everywhere going to one point. One point of concentrated demand, downtown, is getting a very high value service. There is little reason to provide that level of service from multiple points.

Most everywhere else transit to the airport will remain for captive riders and workers only.

It depends. Highways are congested; and the person who drives you to the airport, has to make the reverse trip as well.

Then, airport workers are a sizeable group. They definitely won't be using ARL every day unless they get a huge discount, but some of them will use subway or GO train if that option exists.

There are many cities in the world with subway or public (not premium fare) commuter rail links to the airport.

 

[kettal]

A subway on Eglinton will be needed, and if a real subway is to cost $220 million/km, a trenched Richview subway could cost no more than $200 million/km, probably around double that of the LRT that's being built at $150-170. For the relatively huge increase in speed, network reliability, psychological draw, and not having to worry about future capacity concerns, that's a pretty good deal for perhaps the second most important corridor in the city (after Yonge.) Eglinton could support very high density nodal development that, while maybe not being the kind of pretty European avenues that TC sells, would be almost fully transit oriented, and is an opportunity that almost no other corridor in the city has along most of it's length.

Yet the Richview corridor is the section that would benefit the least from grade separation. It's already as fast as a subway. The slow section is through Scarborough, remember?

And it doesn't matter how much you repeat the same "psychological barriers" argument, it doesn't become any more true.

 

[GraphicMatt]

Really, there isn't actually that huge a market for Eglinton as a crosstown line. Sure, there'll be some riders going from random point to random point, but it won't be the mass of Scarborough to Pearson trips that the TTC sold the line as having.

When did the TTC sell this line as being awesome for Scarborough to Pearson trips? Pearson wasn't even part of the original plan.

 

[Fresh Start]

Yet the Richview corridor is the section that would benefit the least from grade separation. It's already as fast as a subway. The slow section is through Scarborough, remember?

And it doesn't matter how much you repeat the same "psychological barriers" argument, it doesn't become any more true.

Yes the TTC promises it will be as fast as a subway, that means it must be true, not like they've never lived up to expectations before or anything.

 

[RedRocket191]

Then let's never build anything ever, because it will never live up to expectations.

In the absense of a crystal ball, I'm liable to believe the modelling done by respected planning firms.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

When did the TTC sell this line as being awesome for Scarborough to Pearson trips? Pearson wasn't even part of the original plan.

Yet someone decided that a continuous transfer free route across Eglinton was necessary (not that not even the busses travel the full route, they split at Yonge). And, someone decided that a transfer at Sheppard was ok. If the crosstown trip was never in consideration why then must we have the route crosstown?

 

[EnviroTO]

They want to remove transfers as much as possible. The reason Metrolinx wants the Jane East LRT to Don Mills is to eliminate transfers. If they accept a transfer at Don Mills it is only because it was too complicated or expensive to have the LRT enter the station underground from the east and exit to the north. Crosstown routes aren't about taking people all the way across town... it is about taking someone from Bayview to Avenue Road as well.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

They want to remove transfers as much as possible. The reason Metrolinx wants the Jane East LRT to Don Mills is to eliminate transfers. If they accept a transfer at Don Mills it is only because it was too complicated or expensive to have the LRT enter the station underground from the east and exit to the north. Crosstown routes aren't about taking people all the way across town... it is about taking someone from Bayview to Avenue Road as well.

That's absurd!!!!! There will be a transfer from the SELRT to the Sheppard subway so you've forced a transfer on riders anyway. The Finch E portion (which is what I hope you are talking about bc there is no Jane East LRT) would be marginalized by a Sheppard E and W extension.

It's about taking people from STC to York U/Downsview as well.

Funny how people can have selective debating points.

 

[RedRocket191]

Yet someone decided that a continuous transfer free route across Eglinton was necessary (not that not even the busses travel the full route, they split at Yonge). And, someone decided that a transfer at Sheppard was ok. If the crosstown trip was never in consideration why then must we have the route crosstown?

Is calling it a crosstown line false advertising? No. You can use it to get across town. No one said that you should use it or have to use it.

Besides, is it a marketing name. Is BMW really the ultimate driving machine? Is Bud really the king of beers? (NO). Does Pepperidge Farms really remember?

 

[kettal]

Yet someone decided that a continuous transfer free route across Eglinton was necessary (not that not even the busses travel the full route, they split at Yonge). And, someone decided that a transfer at Sheppard was ok. If the crosstown trip was never in consideration why then must we have the route crosstown?

What are you trying to prove here? Do you wish Eglinton had more transfers involved? Would that make you happy?

 

[Dan416]

The problem is the inconsistency of the logic being applied. The fact is, it's not consistent. It has to do with only using LRT. If the logic was "minimize transfers", Sheppard would be subway.

 

[jwill]

The point is that the Sheppard LRT doesn't add any transfers (there is already one at Don Mills Stn.) and Eglinton actually eliminates one (at Yonge).

 

[Eug]

Using that logic, if they're going to convert SRT to LRT anyway (if they do that is), then why not just make it a continuation of the Eglinton Crosstown LRT?