[ARG1]

I wasn't referring to you.

It's the SSE supporters who have one set of rules for Scarborough, and another for the rest of the city.

And there's really nothing to give a rest as far as the EELRT is concerned - the SSE has used up the entire budget for this project. It's the reason this isn't proceeding.

Who the hell are these people that have separate rules for Scarborough, and another for the rest of the city? At best they're asking for a trunk subway, something pretty much every other borough in Toronto has.

 

[Rainforest]

Employment and institution drives ridership.
There is potential for Eg West if it eventually leads to the airport along with a better transit network around the airport employment area. Eg East is more for the typical local travel demands and would stay stable for many years unless UTSC does a major expansion. As for Scarborough Centre, what will the city do to get more jobs there???

Scarborough Centre is on the trunk line for Scarborough. Established travel patterns alone guarantee the subway ridership reaching 10,000+ per hour per direction at peak.

SRT was carrying 5,000+ pre-covid, and it was at capacity so TTC had to run an express bus from STC to Kennedy to handle the excess demand. With the more direct subway route that crosses the 401 and reaches Sheppard, many existing riders will select a route that uses the subway, and many new riders will come to the system.

Adding jobs at STC is nice, and will help utilize the counter-peak capacity. They have the McCowan Presinct plan for that. But whether it works well or not, SSE will have decent ridership.

I agree that Eg West has potential to increase the demand, but it will have to go long way just to reach the demand level the SSE corridor has right now.

 

[syn]

Who the hell are these people that have separate rules for Scarborough, and another for the rest of the city? At best they're asking for a trunk subway, something pretty much every other borough in Toronto has.

Really?

Where are all these trunk subway lines?

The point is that the SSE is directly responsible for the Eglinton East LRT not being built. The original budget was supposed to cover both. Now there's no money left for that project, and it probably won't be a priority for quite a long time.

 

[Rainforest]

The SSE budget and the Eglinton East budget were almost never linked. With the exception of a few months when John Tory's team was counting the cost of the 3-stop SSE, then decided to build 1-stop SSE plus EE LRT, then realized they don't have the funds for that combo and shrunk their plan to just the 1-stop SSE.

Fundamentally, EE LRT was booted in 2009, when the Liberals still had a firm hold of Queens Park, and Rob Ford wasn't yet elected. The provincial government decided it cannot pay for the escalating costs of the 8-line Transit City LRT plan, and shrunk it to just 4 lines (Eglinton, SLRT, Finch West, Sheppard East).

See here: https://transittoronto.ca/streetcar/4121.shtml , search for "2009"

Or here: https://globalnews.ca/news/207955/timeline-a-history-of-transit-city/

Since then, EE LRT is in hibernation, except for a short-lived resurrection during John Tory's SSE struggles.

If we want to fund EE LRT right now, the funds must come from switching the low-ridership EW LRT to the surface. Not from messing with SSE again.

 

[sixrings]

The SSE budget and the Eglinton East budget were almost never linked. With the exception of a few months when John Tory's team was counting the cost of the 3-stop SSE, then decided to build 1-stop SSE plus EE LRT, then realized they don't have the funds for that combo and shrunk their plan to just the 1-stop SSE.

Fundamentally, EE LRT was booted in 2009, when the Liberals still had a firm hold of Queens Park, and Rob Ford wasn't yet elected. The provincial government decided it cannot pay for the escalating costs of the 8-line Transit City LRT plan, and shrunk it to just 4 lines (Eglinton, SLRT, Finch West, Sheppard East).

See here: https://transittoronto.ca/streetcar/4121.shtml , search for "2009"

Or here: https://globalnews.ca/news/207955/timeline-a-history-of-transit-city/

Since then, EE LRT is in hibernation, except for a short-lived resurrection during John Tory's SSE struggles.

If we want to fund EE LRT right now, the funds must come from switching the low-ridership EW LRT to the surface. Not from messing with SSE again.

I don't know how to reply without sounding vindictive but why should I feel bad about lowering myself to Scarboroughs level when clearly that very behaviour rewarded them. I was going to be happy using a surface Eglinton west lrt but I'll extra enjoy riding it knowing Eglinton east got screwed because of it.

 

[Rainforest]

I don't know how to reply without sounding vindictive but why should I feel bad about lowering myself to Scarboroughs level when clearly that very behaviour rewarded them. I was going to be happy using a surface Eglinton let but I'll extra enjoy riding it knowing Eglinton east got screwed because of it.

Sometimes people choose strange reasons to feel happy. Enjoy if you will; honestly 99.99% of other TTC riders won't care.

 

[ARG1]

Really?

Where are all these trunk subway lines?

The point is that the SSE is directly responsible for the Eglinton East LRT not being built. The original budget was supposed to cover both. Now there's no money left for that project, and it probably won't be a priority for quite a long time.

The Northern Tip of Line 1 covers North York Centre, Line 5 will cover York, Line 5 and 2, and if its built, the Ontario Line will cover East York, Line 2 covers Etobicoke, as well as the western extension of Line 5. Any questions? Furthermore, as Rainforest mentioned, Funding for SSE was almost never tied with Eglinton East. Those have been their own separate entities for a while now.

 

[syn]

The Northern Tip of Line 1 covers North York Centre, Line 5 will cover York, Line 5 and 2, and if its built, the Ontario Line will cover East York, Line 2 covers Etobicoke, as well as the western extension of Line 5. Any questions? Those have been their own separate entities for a while now.

Here is what you wrote:

"At best they're asking for a trunk subway, something pretty much every other borough in Toronto has. "

You then proceed to name lines that don't even exist.

North York has a Yonge Extension, one that makes sense on a number of different levels.

Saying Line 2 'covers' Etobicoke is a huge stretch. It's a grand total of 3 stations. It's like arguing Line 2 already "covers" Scarborough, and they have an additional RT connection no other borough has.

Furthermore, as Rainforest mentioned, Funding for SSE was almost never tied with Eglinton East.

This is incorrect. (from 2016)

 

[ARG1]

Here is what you wrote:

"At best they're asking for a trunk subway, something pretty much every other borough in Toronto has. "

You then proceed to name lines that don't even exist.

North York has a Yonge Extension, one that makes sense on a number of different levels.

Saying Line 2 'covers' Etobicoke is a huge stretch. It's a grand total of 3 stations. It's like arguing Line 2 already "covers" Scarborough, and they have an additional RT connection no other borough has.



This is incorrect. (from 2016)

Only Line 5, a Line that was supposed to be built back in early 90s until it was struck down by the Harris.

 

[Rainforest]

See here: https://transittoronto.ca/streetcar/4121.shtml , search for "2009"

Or here: https://globalnews.ca/news/207955/timeline-a-history-of-transit-city/

Even after the actual history of EE LRT has been presented with facts and links, certain posters will deny the facts and push their twisted version instead.

 

[sixrings]

Even after the actual history of EE LRT has been presented with facts and links, certain posters will deny the facts and push their twisted version instead.

Thanks for explaining everything Rainforest. Even if I tend to disagree with you on how much transit can be built you are at least consistent that it should be a priority even if taxes have to be raised. That said we are well aware of the history but some of us see things differently. I for instance believed once all that money went into the danforth extension that there wouldn't be money for Eglinton east.

 

[sixrings]

If we want to fund EE LRT right now, the funds must come from switching the low-ridership EW LRT to the surface. Not from messing with SSE again.

This is my issue with that statement. When the rt conversion was fully funded and shovels in theground we didn't think itwas to late to mess around and cancel it. Now that it is a subway it's untouchable. Well Eglinton west is now a subway. Shouldn't it too become untouchable.

 

[Rainforest]

This is my issue with that statement. When the rt conversion was fully funded and shovels in theground we didn't think itwas to late to mess around and cancel it. Now that it is a subway it's untouchable. Well Eglinton west is now a subway. Shouldn't it too become untouchable.

I guess, yes. At some point Eglinton West should become untouchable, even though the decision to tunnel was questionable originally.

I have some hope for the longer term, that Eglinton West will host 2 LRT branches. One connecting Pearson to Kennedy, the other connecting Mississauga to Toronto Midtown. In that configuration, the Eglinton West grade separation will become justifiable (even though I'm sure Metrolinx didn't think that far when they decided in favor of the tunnel).

 

[syn]

Only Line 5, a Line that was supposed to be built back in early 90s until it was struck down by the Harris.

Not only Line 5. The Ontario Line doesn't exist. The EWLRT doesn't exist.

So the 'trunk' argument doesn't really land.

As for the EELRT, it was a funded project, along with the SSE. The SSE cost ballooned to such a degree that there's now no money left for the EELRT.

The previous funding for the EELRT prior to 2016 is irrelevant, as the Ford's cancelled nearly all of Transit City.

Scarborough is getting their SSE. The price for that is less rapid transit access.

This is my issue with that statement. When the rt conversion was fully funded and shovels in theground we didn't think itwas to late to mess around and cancel it. Now that it is a subway it's untouchable. Well Eglinton west is now a subway. Shouldn't it too become untouchable.

It's hard not to see the hypocrisy.

There's no savings to be found by putting the SSE above ground, or building a more comprehensive LRT network with the funds available.

There's no savings to be found to build a full capacity Ontario Line. We were always told those were two separate projects, and that the SSE budget has no bearing on the DRL/OL.

Now with no money for the EELRT, it's expected another project should have it's budget reduced to fund another project.

For the record, I'm completely against the EWLRT being buried. Total waste of money. It's just funny to see how people change their tune when it comes to Scarborough transit.

Don't the people of Etobicoke deserve to be treated like 1st class citizens too?

 

[sixrings]

Not only Line 5. The Ontario Line doesn't exist. The EWLRT doesn't exist.

So the 'trunk' argument doesn't really land.

As for the EELRT, it was a funded project, along with the SSE. The SSE cost ballooned to such a degree that there's now no money left for the EELRT.

The previous funding for the EELRT prior to 2016 is irrelevant, as the Ford's cancelled nearly all of Transit City.

Scarborough is getting their SSE. The price for that is less rapid transit access.



It's hard not to see the hypocrisy.

There's no savings to be found by putting the SSE above ground, or building a more comprehensive LRT network with the funds available.

There's no savings to be found to build a full capacity Ontario Line. We were always told those were two separate projects, and that the SSE budget has no bearing on the DRL/OL.

Now with no money for the EELRT, it's expected another project should have it's budget reduced to fund another project.

For the record, I'm completely against the EWLRT being buried. Total waste of money. It's just funny to see how people change their tune when it comes to Scarborough transit.

Don't the people of Etobicoke deserve to be treated like 1st class citizens too?

Im pretty much against Eglinton West being buried even though ill use it. Im pretty much for a proper subway instead of whatever technology OL is using despite ill never use it. And I was pro surface, and RT conversion for Sheppard, STC, Eglinton for the few times I go visit my friends in Scarborough.

Now Eglinton is getting red paint and according to some super optimistic people on here, lead by OneCity, Sheppard will get extended to STC as a Subway. Im confused why people n the east refuse to admit that they are wanting to take every transit dollar possible.