[OneCity]

Eglinton West being underground was Doug's decision FYI. It was supposed to be above ground. Also, the right turns under this plan are also a problem.

Yes, and that decision for EW only makes the decision for the City to stop planning the EELRT far more shameful.

Personally I feel the Conservatives were the closest ones to getting it right on Eglinton West. Grade separated rapid transit whether tunneled or above ground should have been the only two options here. The City already pooched the Crosstown Eastern portion when it comes to grade separation so the EELRT with signal priority, proper cycle lanes and tunnel at Morningside crossing could have justified the removal of vehicle lanes along these very important corridors. What is going on right now is absolutely careless planning and an optical political stunt.

Speaking of turns, we will now have cars turning from a middle lane thru the bus/cycle lane to get on to side streets. This is truly unacceptable planning.

 

[OneCity]

I feel like the context between those 2 decisions are different though. The Eglinton West extension not only serves the airport, the biggest employment center in the city, but also connects to renforth gateway and the transitway, a fully grade separated busway connecting to Downtown Mississauga, and it wouldn't make too much sense if to commute from Mississauga to Toronto, you had to get on a fully grade separated busway, then get on an LRT that's not grade separated, which then goes back to grade separated where you can transfer to Line 1. That setup would simply be idiotic. Meanwhile Eglinton East... eh? It doesn't really go anywhere too important other than maybe UTSC and 2 relatively minor GO stations. I don't think there simply is much of a business case for a grade separated option, and while I would 100% support a grade-separated option, I would understand them not wanting to go down that path unlike Eglinton West. (Also I know you're talking about busses, but tbh short term I don't really see much of a difference. An LRT realistically would only improve capacity).

There are many options when designing BRT&LRT which would justify removing 2 vehicle lanes on major arterials. All options would provide designs that greatly improve upon transit speeds, capacity and provide proper cycle lanes.

What is happening right now does not come close and is sad to see.

As for the EW-EE comparison, rapid transit should be 'rapid' and well connected no matter what the destination is, capacity needs to be adequate to neet the destinations like airports or schools. If we really want people out of cars, and to remove vehicle lanes we need to provide the fastest transit solutions possible when upgrading or designing any new piece of infrastructure. The extra costs to do it right now saves huge money in the future. EE can be BRT, but still needs to have at minimum signal priority and should be grade seperated for the benefit of all modes and users.

 

[ARG1]

There are many options when designing BRT&LRT which would justify removing 2 vehicle lanes on major arterials. All options would provide designs that greatly improve upon transit speeds, capacity and provide proper cycle lanes.

What is happening right now does not come close and is sad to see.

As for the EW-EE comparison, rapid transit should be 'rapid' and well connected no matter what the destination is, capacity needs to be adequate to neet the destinations like airports or schools. If we really want people out of cars, and to remove vehicle lanes we need to provide the fastest transit solutions possible when upgrading or designing any new piece of infrastructure. The extra costs to do it right now saves huge money in the future. EE can be BRT, but still needs to have at minimum signal priority and should be grade seperated for the benefit of all modes and users.

When compared to Elevated or Buried, none of these designs even come close to the speeds offered. Furthermore, BRT and LRT are more prone to external interference such vehicles or trucks, and even with signal priority, are prone to get stuck behind red lights. Yes, Rapid Transit should be 'rapid' and well connected no matter the destination, but you also have to ask how rapid something is justified for that corridor, and how much money is need to be spend for necessary efficiency. In that sense, E-East has a smaller priority in getting full grade separation.

 

[OneCity]

When compared to Elevated or Buried, none of these designs even come close to the speeds offered. Furthermore, BRT and LRT are more prone to external interference such vehicles or trucks, and even with signal priority, are prone to get stuck behind red lights. Yes, Rapid Transit should be 'rapid' and well connected no matter the destination, but you also have to ask how rapid something is justified for that corridor, and how much money is need to be spend for necessary efficiency. In that sense, E-East has a smaller priority in getting full grade separation.

I dont dispute any of the limitations regarding most designs for BRT/LRT. Never have?

My point is we are spending money right now to cause congestion, provide minimal enhancements to public transit, adding no real cycles lanes, and causing confusion on the roads. But yes if and when we are spending huge money to build infrastructure that removes vehicle lanes then it absolutely should be built as efficient as possible with long term vision in mind.

This corridor goes thru multiple 'priority' neighborhoods for whatever that is worth in this City? And this scheme right now is no more then an irresponsible political gimmick to pretend the people here are a 'priority'' while taking away 2 much needed vehicle lanes and providing next to nothing in return. It really is a joke. Atleast the EELRT, a line that outsiders councilors at the City once pretended to heavily support for other motive had benefits beyond reliable transit. Including esthetics and cycling lanes.

Bottom line one side of City was upgraded to receive better transit and soon after the other side was downgraded to a very irresponsible plan. This will not be well received overall and I highly doubt the media will report fairly enough for other people outside to understand the real negative impacts it will cause in the bigger picture, moreless we will see a one sided narrative until it becomes a huge issue politically down the road. And we will all pay if it gets ugly. All from another extreme corner cutting City planning decision that should have never happened.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Yes, and that decision for EW only makes the decision for the City to stop planning the EELRT far more shameful.

Personally I feel the Conservatives were the closest ones to getting it right on Eglinton West. Grade separated rapid transit whether tunneled or above ground should have been the only two options here. The City already pooched the Crosstown Eastern portion when it comes to grade separation so the EELRT with signal priority, proper cycle lanes and tunnel at Morningside crossing could have justified the removal of vehicle lanes along these very important corridors. What is going on right now is absolutely careless planning and an optical political stunt.

Speaking of turns, we will now have cars turning from a middle lane thru the bus/cycle lane to get on to side streets. This is truly unacceptable planning.

There was no money left though. I agree that Eglinton should have been grade separated above ground, and there was an option for that where the LRT would stop only at the major intersections.. The city pushed the plan with the intermediate stops though. I think they just wanted to get something done on Eglinton East. I still think the LRT should be built to UTSC.

 

[OneCity]

There was no money left though. I agree that Eglinton should have been grade separated above ground, and there was an option for that where the LRT would stop only at the major intersections.. The city pushed the plan with the intermediate stops though. I think they just wanted to get something done on Eglinton East. I still think the LRT should be built to UTSC.

There is never 'money' until there is. Without a serious plan and strong push from the City level there will never be a chance for money, same goes for any plan, anywhere.

There is really no excuse for any City not to push forward with detailed planning . This red paint is a make work project that is a waste of money, that kicks the can further down only to cost everyone far more when a real equitable rapid transit solution is fueled up and starts to be debated, re-designed, and then funded.

Further the Province allowed the City to use the SSE levy as it wanted and City decided to drop the EELRT for this crap. The territorial discrimination in the details of the Citys planning refuses to let up even when it was called out before. This type of,weak. corner cutting planning will likely create the environment of further political chaos that may cost us all again down the road.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

There is never 'money' until there is. Without a serious plan and strong push from the City level there will never be a chance for money, same goes for any plan, anywhere.

There is really no excuse for any City not to push forward with detailed planning . This red paint is a make work project that is a waste of money, that kicks the can further down only to cost everyone far more when a real equitable rapid transit solution is fueled up and starts to be debated, re-designed, and then funded.

Further the Province allowed the City to use the SSE levy as it wanted and City decided to drop the EELRT for this crap. The territorial discrimination in the details of the Citys planning refuses to let up even when it was called out before. This type of,weak. corner cutting planning will likely create the environment of further political chaos that may cost us all again down the road.

Because of the plan for the Ontario line and Scarborough subway, there was only 214 million left for the EELRT. Not the cities fault. This is on ford. This is what 214 million buys.

 

[M II A II R II K]

If Scarborough wanted far reaching rapid transit its too bad new rail corridors throughout it so there could have been an extensive RT service and not this street obsessed alignments all over the place.

 

[OneCity]

Because of the plan for the Ontario line and Scarborough subway, there was only 214 million left for the EELRT. Not the cities fault. This is on ford. This is what 214 million buys.

Infrastructure funding does not end at the SSE and OL, therefore all Cities are suppose to plan next projects appropriately with detail for the future and lobby strongly so their plans are funded down the road. In this case the City stopped planning for the EELRT, started to cut corners and pay to promote shabby, narrow ideological scheme once again. This irresponsible 'planning' will again divide people in the City which will be see rear its head down the road when reality surfaces past the media narratives and the excuses regarding lack of current funding. As that is all it ism an excuse to cut corners on certain areas of the City and to do nothing to plan for the future.

In this case the City was actually given the opportunity to fund the line with the SSE levy when the Province uploaded subways and choose not too. At a minimum the City was given the opportunity to plan and design the line and be vocal for top up funding in the future and chose not too. What the City has done here will cost us all far more funding down the road and may even poison politics due the the divisive nature of the red paint sham.

This current sham would not last a day in most areas of the City, but its Scarborough again, and cutting corners is what the City does best when planning for the future, so well have to wait a few years for the reality check again as the apathetic politics will be served on a platter when someone wants to take up the issue. Although this one might get called out sooner rather then later given the congestion impacts on main arterial during COVID.

 

[sixrings]

This current sham would not last a day in most areas of the City, but its Scarborough again, and cutting corners is what the City does best when planning for the future, so well have to wait a few years for the reality check again as the apathetic politics will be served on a platter when someone wants to take up the issue. Although this one might get called out sooner rather then later given the congestion impacts on main arterial during COVID.

Scarborough gets a 3.6+ billion dollar infrastructure project and then cries that the city is neglecting them.

 

[Rainforest]

The real question isn't whether SSE or Eglinton East is more important; everyone here is set in their opinions and won't budge.

But rather: if the city is willing to spend no more than 200 million in this corridor now, then was it worth doing anything at all? Or, the residents would be better off skipping this round completely, and getting a proper LRT or BRT started 5 years later?

My gut feeling is that a slightly faster transit is still better than mixed traffic, especially if some of the lanes added today will make the future in-median line easier to build. But I haven't been in the area for a long time, and can't know for sure.

 

[OneCity]

The real question isn't whether SSE or Eglinton East is more important; everyone here is set in their opinions and won't budge.

But rather: if the city is willing to spend no more than 200 million in this corridor now, then was it worth doing anything at all? Or, the residents would be better off skipping this round completely, and getting a proper LRT or BRT started 5 years later?

My gut feeling is that a slightly faster transit is still better than mixed traffic, especially if some of the lanes added today will make the future in-median line easier to build. But I haven't been in the area for a long time, and can't know for sure.

Slightly faster? They are making a mess out of traffic, creating confusion for highly questionable 'slightly faster' bus and no real bicycle lanes.

Forget the confusion created and poor cycle lanes for a minute, you simply should never implement the removal of vehicle lanes, without greatly improving public transit. And to make matters far more insane they are doing this during COVID where many families have a member being encouraged if not forced to drive. This 'plan' is beyond disrespectful to the majority who live here and that goes for all types of commuters. This is a political illusion to act like the City is doing 'something' for the areas because the truth is there is now zero intention to build anything useful transit improvements for decades upon decades in these 'priority areas'. As EW moves forward the City will begin to pay many times over for this senseless planning.

This is how you would plan if your intention was to fuel a divide in both the greater City and massive area itself along various lines (East-West, Rich-Poor, Black-White, P. Trans vs. car) Sorry, this is very poorly planned and the deep rooted lines of division are already a well know problem in this City. This is bad.

 

[afransen]

^I guess you are not familiar with the idea of a 'road diet'.

 

[OneCity]

^I guess you are not familiar with the idea of a 'road diet'.

That is a really simple response with so many glaring issues in the current plan. Safe to assume you dont live around here, nor care.

The bigger problem is the 'planning diet' with lack of detail and equitable planning to build real rapid transit, real cycle infrastructure and not congest and confuse the hell out of motorists. There was a reason Morningside Crossing was being tunneled in the EELRT design, even then there were concerns.

 

[afransen]

This only cost $8M. If it is a disaster, it can (and will) be undone. In the mean time, the TTC expects pretty significant operating cost savings. I'm somewhat skeptical that it will be a disaster, since bus traffic reduces the curb lane throughput for cars anyway.

Agree that the bike lane mixed with buses is a bit half baked.