[Voltz]

For the cost of building an entirely dedicated LRT system (including OMSF), pegged at $4B, why not just keep the RapidTO lanes and run an elevated extension of Line 4? Much easier to use existing/planned TR facilities. Hits Malvern and UTSC and includes direct connection to GO at Agincourt to whisk you downtown. (This plan assumes that Line 4 is already being extended out to McCowan)
View attachment 406080

Issues I can see here is that the red lanes won't have sufficient capacity. I don't think the EELRT needs to go past Sheppard and Morningside, and so having a Subway through Malvern is way overkill.

 

[innsertnamehere]

What about something like this? The Sheppard Subway could be above-grade or elevated from Agincourt east, keeping costs low. Red is BRT lanes:

 

[Deadpool X]

My big issue with this idea is, say you're travelling from Line 5 to this new Eglinton East LRT. So you have to transfer to Line 2, then in 1km transfer again to this new LRT? All whilst travelling along the exact same street?

In addition to that, passengers on EELRT will lose a direct connection to Kennedy GO station as well.

 

[Leo_Chan]

My big issue with this idea is, say you're travelling from Line 5 to this new Eglinton East LRT. So you have to transfer to Line 2, then in 1km transfer again to this new LRT? All whilst travelling along the exact same street?

The same applies to transferring to and from Stouffville GO line. This was brought up with extending Line 4 to Sheppard West instead of Downsview Park for Barrie GO Line too.

 

[ARG1]

The same applies to transferring to and from Stouffville GO line. This was brought up with extending Line 4 to Sheppard West instead of Downsview Park for Barrie GO Line too.

Agree to some extent although at least in that case you're transferring into a different direction. It's not like you're continuing in the exact same direction along the exact same street.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

We complain about Doug with good reason, but what can we say if the city keeps shooting itself in the foot? I don't want to hear complaints about a linear transfer, which is exactly what will happen if this is built this way. Blaming the subway to me is ridiculous since the planning for the McCowan extension started with the TTC. This should be a through-line. I think the city is doing this because they believe it's too long to operate from Terminal 1 to UTSC.

 

[lead82]

It is too long to operate such a long line. The issue here is why even built the EELRT if it’s going to be a local route. This is the fundamental problem with our city politics. LRT should not be used as a streetcar in the suburbs. The travel patterns and distances are not the same as downtown. It has to be rapid to be useful. If this LRT will be slower than a local bus then what is the point or such an investment? Some operational savings for massive capital outlays does not make sense. The city and the TTC don’t care about travel time which is what the public cares most about. Travel in this city by transit is excruciatingly slow and unreliable. Bring reliability and speed and people will use it. It’s why Ford is right to build subways it’s the only mode that goes relatively fast. Let’s see if Line 5 will operate better than the bus it replaces on the eastern surface portion of the line.

 

[Voltz]

is why even built the EELRT if it’s going to be a local route. This is the fundamental problem with our city politics. LRT should not be used as a streetcar in the suburbs. The travel patterns and distances are not the same as downtown. It has to be rapid to be useful. If this LRT will be slower than a local bus then what is the point or such an investment? Some operational savings for massive capital outlays does not make sense. The city and the TTC don’t care about travel time which is what the public cares most about. Travel in this city by transit is excruciatingly slow and unreliable. Bring reliability and speed and people will use it. It’s why Ford is right to build subways it’s the only mode that goes relatively fast. Let’s see if Line 5 will operate better than the bus it repl

Sigh, The planned stop spacing is very good, it won't be a streetcar line or slower than a local bus, and is needed for capacity anyway.

I have regularly taken the 86 bus in from the outer ends of the route, I would have much rather taken this LRT than a bus.

 

[ARG1]

Sigh, The planned stop spacing is very good, it won't be a streetcar line or slower than a local bus, and is needed for capacity anyway.

I have regularly taken the 86 bus in from the outer ends of the route, I would have much rather taken this LRT than a bus.

The TTC's own report says it will be slower than the status quo RapidTO route.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

The TTC's own report says it will be slower than the status quo RapidTO route.

But that's problem. Even with all the stops it doesn't have to be. That's on purpose.

Watch, someone will say take the smaller stops out and then City Planning/TTC will say they can't serve the community that way.

So we get stuck with the 86/986 instead.

 

[JBR]

Sigh, The planned stop spacing is very good, it won't be a streetcar line or slower than a local bus, and is needed for capacity anyway.

I have regularly taken the 86 bus in from the outer ends of the route, I would have much rather taken this LRT than a bus.

The staff report literally says it will be slower than the current RapidTO lanes

 

[lead82]

The planned stops are not far apart at all. They should be at least 1km apart. It’s the same problem as we have with Spadina, Queens Quay and St Clair. They were built as streetcar lines with insanely close stops that makes the vehicle travel speed super slow. The current route shows 21 stops over 15km. The problem stretch is Eglinton where there are too many mid block stops. The second issue is Toronto wont provide actual LRT signal priority so that LRT vehicles spend a minimum time waiting at lights. Stopping before an intersection for a light and then after for the stop contirbutes to slow travel time.

LRT should be rapid transit and not just a dedicated ROW. That’s not worth the investment long term. The problem is the political class wants to appease their local constituents and not serve the greater city good which is to move people efficiently and fast. Travel times is a huge concern for those without a car as it’s a huge disadvantage currently. Car is king because of speed and efficiency- even with our traffic congestion, car travel is still faster for over 90% of trips. These investments need to address this. It’s what Ford gets but many don’t understand.

 

[allengeorge]

It appears to be a funding/operations issue. It seems what’s being advocated for is a rapid transit line with some parallel local services. But that would mean more TTC operators, more maintenance…so we try to design one solution (at-grade light rail. With frequent stops) with that handles everything, which obviously doesn’t work.

 

[adrianaliu]

My view on this is the same as on Finch West. I don't mind investing in enhancements to the local/surface network (not every line needs to be rapid transit), I mind spending billions to do such enhancements in the form of rail (when a bus can serve the same purpose), especially if it precludes similar improvements on other corridors throughout the city. We could build a whole viva style network of bus lanes on several arterials for the money were spending on this and finch west and make the citys extensive 10 minute network significantly more comfortable and reliable. if were going to be spending a ton to build rail lines they should at least be fast, and if a line is going to just be an enhanced local service i dont see why we should spend a ton on rail.

 

[lead82]

Exactly.