[kd86]

the plan will be revealed at the end of the month so I guess will find out what happens then

 

[lafard]

Hey... here is a single point where ART might actually have a more impressive stats. I actually haven't found any numbers to confirm it but it is plausible. Is it worth the non-standard vehicles? LRTs can to 0-60mph in about 20 seconds which is faster than most people standing can handle. Taking off like a race-car isn't nice for granny who hasn't got to her seat yet. This isn't high-speed rail where everyone has a seat.

THe acceleration is irrelevant if they run them as they do now and wait til the train clears the station to accelerate all the way.

 

[EnviroTO]

But it isn't relevant above the limit at which standing passengers can comfortably handle it. Cars and aircraft all have high acceleration rates but they don't expect standing passengers.

 

[kd86]

Not sure why Metrolinx is supporting an underground line pass Don Mills, the line can easily be elevated thus still respecting Mayor Ford’s vision of keeping transit off surface roads. In addition what is the point of using low floor LRV's on the Eglinton line if it’s never going to run on the streets anyways. Couldn’t Metrolinx save additional money and time by converting the vehicles to a high floor train (not necessarily ICTS but small metro cars). This would also save time by not having to redoing all the existing station to low floor platforms on the SRT line.

 

[jje1000]

Likely a small number of people called Rob and complained about the possible noise, dust and reduction and sunlight. Thus, Ford obviously now has the consensus of the entire city to put the Eglinton line underground.

I'm surprised that Metrolinx hasn't actually proposed this option.

 

[nfitz]

Given the outcry you get in Vancouver when they propose running elevated Skytrains, I don't think anyone should be surprised that this wasn't seriously considered.

While they may be able to ram these things through in Vancouver - some of the time - the administration here seems to be much more adverse to criticism.

 

[Rainforest]

Not sure why Metrolinx is supporting an underground line pass Don Mills, the line can easily be elevated thus still respecting Mayor Ford’s vision of keeping transit off surface roads. In addition what is the point of using low floor LRV's on the Eglinton line if it’s never going to run on the streets anyways. Couldn’t Metrolinx save additional money and time by converting the vehicles to a high floor train (not necessarily ICTS but small metro cars). This would also save time by not having to redoing all the existing station to low floor platforms on the SRT line.

1) The low floor LRVs are already ordered. Cancelling or changing that order will incur costs that might not be offset by the savings on the existing SRT platforms.

2) At this point, we don't know if the Don Mills - Kennedy section, or the section west of Black Creek, will run in the street median or completely separated. Construction on either section will not start within Ford's first term (till the end of 2014), and after that, all bets are open.

 

[reaperexpress]

The east-Eglinton segment is the final portion of the proposed LRT to be built, so I'm guessing the Fords have no intention of actually having to pay for it. The initial form of the LRT will likely be an Eglinton LRT between Jane and Don Mills, and a renovated Scarborough LRT. For now I think the main issue is deciding how and where to terminate the initial ELRT. I'm sure that once we get further into the EA process on the east-Eglinton segment we'll start seeing more logical designs. After all, cutting corners is the TTC's specialty.

 

[BMO]

1) The low floor LRVs are already ordered. Cancelling or changing that order will incur costs that might not be offset by the savings on the existing SRT platforms.

2) At this point, we don't know if the Don Mills - Kennedy section, or the section west of Black Creek, will run in the street median or completely separated. Construction on either section will not start within Ford's first term (till the end of 2014), and after that, all bets are open.

Trust me Metrolinx is adamant about keeping it underground.

 

[gweed123]

Trust me Metrolinx is adamant about keeping it underground.

I thought they were just advocating for complete grade-separation. Are you sure they were the ones who specifically asked for it underground? That seems like a very Rob Ford-like demand.

 

[BMO]

I thought they were just advocating for complete grade-separation. Are you sure they were the ones who specifically asked for it underground? That seems like a very Rob Ford-like demand.

Basically, Metrolinx "had" to keep eglinton at grade because the amount of funding for all the TC projects only allowed the central section to be grade separated. With Rob Ford taking on Sheppard and Finch, they were more than happy to do the whole eglinton line underground which they believed was the ideal option for the line (it's often thought of as Toronto's 21st century Bloor). The eglinton line, in Metrolinx's view, is the most important line. My impression with regards to Metrolinx is that there is no desire for above ground transit for anywhere in the GTA with exception of the already existing SRT, which realistically cannot be taken down without a substantial increase in costs, thus Metrolinx is biting the bullet and sticking with it and connecting it to the ELRT, and thus using LRTs due to the tight curve on teh SRT portion of the line. Metrolinx's view on an underground eglinton line is that it will be substantially more reliable than an at-grade or above-grade option, and will provide better incentive for generating taxes (an elevated subway/ skytrain would make owning an apartment close to such a structure undesirable). Whether you agree with it or not, people in toronto prefer underground transit opposed to elevated transit.

off-the record: I think Metrolinx is kind of getting a little frustrated with all the red tape and restrictions that they face when doing multiple projects (see the huge debate going on about the Waterloo LRT). I figure they're just really focusing on doing the best they can on one line and hope to gain peoples' confidence through that.

 

[GraphicMatt]

Your story doesn't really jibe with Steve Munro's source that told him that, during negotiations, Metrolinx offered to contribute a couple of billion to the city's Sheppard project if the eastern section of the Eglinton LRT could be kept on the surface:

Recently, I learned that Queen’s Park had offered $2b toward the Sheppard Subway provided that the Fords would allow the eastern part of Eglinton to remain on the surface, but this was turned down flat. So intransigent is the Mayor on the subject of incursion by transit into road space that the possibility of substantial funding for his pet project was not an option worth embracing.

http://stevemunro.ca/?p=5109

 

[BMO]

Your story doesn't really jibe with Steve Munro's source that told him that, during negotiations, Metrolinx offered to contribute a couple of billion to the city's Sheppard project if the eastern section of the Eglinton LRT could be kept on the surface:



http://stevemunro.ca/?p=5109

That is because after-all they are a government entity and are obligated to find the best cost/ratio to provide the same amount of service. I gather that the Province much like many people on these forums, thought that Ford was crazy to think that he could fund Sheppard off of private funding alone, and so to still provide service on sheppard like they promised they offered the $2 billion. Considering that Ford was gun-hoe and said he would find the money for Sheppard it left the province off the hook for providing transit on Sheppard and Finch.

 

[accura407]

I just hope that when EA studies are once again commenced, Metrolinx realizes that elevating the line from Leslie to Victoria Park would have almost no impact to future development (in my opinion) and yet save approx a billion in costs as a result. They can then figure out if its best to extend the SRT to Sheppard or Malvern Town Centre as the original Transit City planned...

And if a Sheppard Station is built, surely this will provide relief for the eastern section of the Sheppard Bus and a new easy one-seat ride to the Yonge Subway...

But no doubt at all...Crosstown needs to be grade seperated because the future frequencies will render an at-grade route useless...

 

[BMO]

I just hope that when EA studies are once again commenced, Metrolinx realizes that elevating the line from Leslie to Victoria Park would have almost no impact to future development (in my opinion) and yet save approx a billion in costs as a result. They can then figure out if its best to extend the SRT to Sheppard or Malvern Town Centre as the original Transit City planned...

And if a Sheppard Station is built, surely this will provide relief for the eastern section of the Sheppard Bus and a new easy one-seat ride to the Yonge Subway...

But no doubt at all...Crosstown needs to be grade seperated because the future frequencies will render an at-grade route useless...

I guess maybe an elevated section between Leslie and Vic Park might be a bit difficult to be within a reasonable distance of people using it, if it is placed in the valley. It all comes down to which method will attract more riders, and for how much? I'm sure there's some merit to your thinking, but I guess we'll see when the EA is complete.