[duper]

I love how Doug Ford suggests that the rumour that Rob Ford was going to get rid of all streetcars was just somehow started by opposing campaigns, as if the public musings didn't come out of Rob Ford's own mouth.
Ugh.

Spoke with Sarah Doucette (Ward 13), who reaffirmed that as far as she's concerned, Transit City is happening. The number of left leaning councillors is still very high.

 

[lafard]

The SRT conversion/extension just got notice to proceed a week or so ago. The question with pushing through another EA so soon is "why have things changed so much in 2 years"? (unlike Sheppard, where 15 years had elapsed, a timeframe in which substantial development occurred beyond the reach of the original subway proposal) By most metrics, the SRT extension to Sheppard is probably more beneficial as it brings "rapid transit" to more people and adds more kms of grade separated transit, albeit lengthening the trip length of everyone else by 90 seconds or so on average due to the transfer.

I'm pretty sure at this point that McGuinty is just going through the motions of appearing agreeable to the new mayor. I figure he'll aim Ford at Metrolinx which will (once again) tell him to f off, they already have a plan underway. Having been called out on the "it wasn't me that wanted to get rid of streetcars" thing I figure that's the last we'll ever hear of Rob Ford's transit plan.

 

[nfitz]

^ I also have a feeling that some form of rail transit on Eglinton will be built, even though it wasn't in Ford's election platform.

Even if the councillors were in favour of moving away from LRT and Transit City to subways, I have a hard time thinking that any of the non-Scarborough councillors would be in favour of spending the entire available budget only in Scarborough.

Clearly McGuinty needs to give something, so that Ford can walk away with at least a token victory. One possibility is cancelling the Eglinton RT from Don Mills to Kennedy and instead using that money to supplement the SRT budget to let them extend the subway to Scarborough Centre ... and leaving Sheppard alone.

Timeframe is difficult though ... even with all the money in the world, Ford's 2015 timeframe for 2 subways just isn't realistic. 2018 maybe ...

 

[ssiguy2]

Of course it's realistic......at least in other cities.
The streetcars aren't going anywhere for a couple of reasons. There is no way in hell McQuinty will pay 10 cents towards the cancellation fee. He will use it as a demand for any new transit money that the streetcar order goes ahead due to the jobs at Bombardier.
What I can see as advantageous is that if there was a mayor in Toronto for the last 40 years that would support a DRL it's Ford, He would love to get rid of the busy Queen Street streetcar route so I can definaterly see a DRL line under Queen on his radar. Also the Pape/Queern/DundasWest DRL would also continue north to at least Weston. This would not only help him in his next bid for mayor with the downtown crowd but also get the suburban votes and a line heading right to his home turf of Rexdale.
One of the more interesting things about politics is that sometimes the politicians who don't share your views are the most advantageous. TC had nothing for the inner city because Miller knew that inner city votes were never at risk but he needed to expand his support in the burbs. Same with Harper. Toronto consistently help Chretien and got squat in return. Any money for Toronto would only be preaching to the converted. Harper on the other hand has no support in Toronto and knows it is essential in order to get his majority. What happens?...............money for Spadina.
Despite all the bitching at Harper he knows he needs the urban vote and with his funding for transit, other major infastructure, tax transit credit, and low income and emergency housing he is the best PM the cities have had in decades.

 

[GTS]

I was disappointed that Rob Ford was elected, but, I also know it isn't the end of the world. A lot of the transit plans he 'promised' to scrap have legally binding contracts in place already, such as the streetcar order with Bombardier', and some of the plans he 'promised' to cancel already has their funding in place! He campaigned with the slogan "Respect for the Taxpayer" but he would be showing a deep disrespect by throwing all the investment already put into these transit projects he plans to scrap. I lived in Vancouver when another conservative mayor was in the mayor's chair here in Toronto and I am surprised voters forgot that disaster and voted someone like Ford in.

One thing I have to remember is that their are contracts in already, showing our intentions, and transit is still going to move forward, this will just be a little bump for the next four years and Toronto continues to develop into a world class city that will keep on attracting new investment and business because of things such as transit and other parts of our infrastructure that are improving.

 

[LAz]

One thing I have to remember is that their are contracts in already, showing our intentions, and transit is still going to move forward, this will just be a little bump for the next four years and Toronto continues to develop into a world class city that will keep on attracting new investment and business because of things such as transit and other parts of our infrastructure that are improving.

If they can cancel the building of Eglinton West, then they can cancel these small stupid projects too. God bless them, and hope they do so.

 

[lafard]

If they can cancel the building of Eglinton West, then they can cancel these small stupid projects too. God bless them, and hope they do so.

Nose, cut off. Face, consider self spiten.

 

[LAz]

Nose, cut off. Face, consider self spiten.

Yeah, Miller's authoritarian practices do deserve these things. End the authoritarian insanity. Public participation, not public informing!

 

[SlickFranky]

Yeah, Miller's authoritarian practices do deserve these things. End the authoritarian insanity. Public participation, not public informing!

You keep saying this, but have you considered what you're suggesting?

The community consultations are to get their input on certain details, to keep the public up to date, and to answer their questions and concerns. You seem to be promoting this system of local referendums, where every single details has to has to be cleared by the PTA. If you go into a community and ask what transit mode they'd prefer, there are only 2 answers you'll get; none, or subways. That's why we have actual planners and engineers to figure that stuff out. And we have multiple layers of elected officials to watch the overall plan and look out for our best interests.

How many TC meetings have you been to?

 

[LAz]

You keep saying this, but have you considered what you're suggesting?

The community consultations are to get their input on certain details, to keep the public up to date, and to answer their questions and concerns. You seem to be promoting this system of local referendums, where every single details has to has to be cleared by the PTA. If you go into a community and ask what transit mode they'd prefer, there are only 2 answers you'll get; none, or subways. That's why we have actual planners and engineers to figure that stuff out. And we have multiple layers of elected officials to watch the overall plan and look out for our best interests.

How many TC meetings have you been to?

Oh I have been to other meetings. Let me explain how the CTA works, in Chicago. The CTA (their TTC) had meetings right before any planning whatsoever was done. For example, they had a few extension ideas for what can be done. And what did they do? Before they even started to develop their plans much, they FIRST went out to get input/feedback from the communities there. One actually did not want the line extension at all! So you see, that is what should be done.

Now, if people simply reject streetcars, then you have to accept that. I mentioned this before... there was the community in Boston, Roxbury. Lack of investment turned it into a very rough neighborhood. And then what - the experts came up with a plan to help the community. Or to be precise, to kick the people out of the community by redeveloping it for high income yuppies. The community was able to organize, to kick the ideas of these experts out, because the experts did not give a rats ass about the needs of the people there. So I always spit on experts when it comes to planning - the little guy should have as much of a say as anyone else. That is what democracy is all about. But, clearly authoritarian methods are preferred by many. Learn a thing or two from that upper class twit Jane Jacobs, would you?

 

[gweed123]

So I always spit on experts when it comes to planning - the little guy should have as much of a say as anyone else. That is what democracy is all about. But, clearly authoritarian methods are preferred by many. Learn a thing or two from that upper class twit Jane Jacobs, would you?

"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" -Isaac Asimov

 

[Tewder]

I guess streetcars are going nowhere...
It's obvious he's setting the stage to back off from removing the network and cancelling the Flexcity order.

I predict a very generous McGuinty. I took it upon myself to read what political experts outside of Toronto thought about the election.
They all say Bad day for Mcguinty and a good one for Harper who will try harder to convince Toronto to vote for him...
More money for Transit? likely

Like I kept saying, McGuinty is very worried at this time and I doubt he'll want to risk loosing Toronto and his neck for a plan that he didn't even designed. Take the fall for Giambrone/Miller's Transit City...Not happening...

Yes, I agree that this is what should happen if Ford is advised correctly. Given the groundswell sentiment that Ford was elected on it would be political suicide for the Province to be seen not to be cooperating with the democratic will of the city on the issue of transit, and given the day to day reality of gridlock that frustrated voters endure it is going to be a tough sell for McGuinty to convince the GTA that streetcars/TC are the way to go. If you combine this with the support the federal Conservatives and liberals will likely offer to curry favour among voters in Toronto and the GTA it is increasingly clear that Ford has found himself in a good position for raising funds and political support.

I predict the following (just for fun because I don't really know what the hell I'm talking about, admittedly):

1. Eglinton switched to subway. The easiest way to deliver on the subway promise and gain credibility in the eyes of 'Joe Public'.

2. The extension of Sheppard to subway. Makes sense for even me who admittedly knows nothing.

and yes wait for it...


3. The building of the DRL! This would be the easiest way to secure a second term by increasing the level of support from downtown voters ('blue' wards?), while still remaining credible vis a vis the platform of mass transit in the GTA, assuming that a DRL can be sold as being as equally crucial to flow into and out of the outer suburbs/GTS as it is into/out of and within the Downtown. I don't really see a negative to this, in fact.

It's actually quite engaging really, and quite exciting to think about different levels of government fighting for votes in Toronto/GTA after so many years of neglect as Torontonians stubbornly voted ideologically. Bring on the subways!

 

[EnviroTO]

"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" -Isaac Asimov

A great quote that explains our current state of affairs. When I watch the media getting all excited about voter turnout it is for this reason I get concerned. The people who follow politics closely and know how it works would be among the people who show up regularly to vote plus some fringe elements. With increased voter turnout you have no idea who is showing up and what kind of understanding of politics they have. When people vote for a person because they seem more like themselves, not because of their skills and the soundness of their platforms, we loose. Imagine if we used democracy to build a technology company and how poorly that would work out when skills and capabilities were second to sound bites and how close to oneself the person seemed. The big issue with democracy is every one gets to vote but there is no requirement to be informed.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Didn't Toronto City Council pass Transit City? Mayor Miller was just a member of city council, he didn't arbitrarily pass or enact Transit City. Transit City needed City Council's permission, not the Mayor's permission.

And then in turn, Transit City needed an Environmental Assessment pass or accepted by the Ontario Government's Department of the Environment. As well, as financially by the province, and partly by the federal governments.

 

[nfitz]

Didn't Toronto City Council pass Transit City? Mayor Miller was just a member of city council, he didn't arbitrarily pass or enact Transit City. Transit City needed City Council's permission, not the Mayor's permission

Precisely; and why the Province of Ontario has said that they would consider any alternatives that council passes.

Though given that Council already voted to ask Metrolinx to prioritize the Downtown Relief Line, and Metrolinx ignored that request, then there is certainly no guarantee that Metrolinx would act.