Dan416
Senior Member
And apparently the city's surplus this year was larger than expected. And people say subways are too expensive. Pshaw.
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- Thread starter New_EastYork
- Start date
The Mad Navigator
Banned
They are, ignoramus.
Mapleson
Active Member
$3 billion in debt wouldn't be bad if that's all the City was responsible to repay, but there are other obligations lining up out the door. Toronto Hydro is carrying at least $500 million in debt; road repairs are ~$250 million in arrears; the capital budget is slashed annually as the pool of funds moving forward shrinks; there is a $400 million revenue/funding gap for 2010; without structural overhaul there will be $1.19 billion operational shortfall by 2019 according to the Toronto Board of Trade. We've gone from under $2b in 2003 to $3b in 2010. I'm worried about the draw down of strategic reserves and where the debt will be in 2014 or 2019; is $6 billion in debt on a $12 billion budget worrisome? At what point do we stop and see if this is the best course of action?
Ammortizing capital spending is a given. They are however financing operational spending through debt, which is fine for a short-term down-turn, but shouldn't be standard operating procedure. When you decide to not pay down your principal or all the interest on your debt, then debt is bad.
"The capital financing policy ensures that Council complies with the debt issuance and management provisions contained in the City of Toronto Act 2006 (COTA) and its regulations while providing Council with the flexibility to meet the City's annual capital needs during its term-of-office."
Dan416
Senior Member
Funny coming from someone with the DRL as their avatar
Hubcap
New Member
Question, why do some people here hate Transit City so much, yes its not perfect but there are other modes of rapid transit than a subway. I mean obviously Bus Rapid Transit would not be sufficient to serve somewhere like Eglinton Ave. (although its currently served by buses), but the point of Transit City is to expand rapid Transit with LRT which is fairly different when compared to the operation of streetcars. Transit City is meant to create sustainable transit at a realistic cost, in areas that don't necessarily constitute subway construction. LRT must be understood as different than streetcars, where streetcars usually operate in mixed traffic or their own right of ways stopping every couple of blocks, LRT runs on a right of way exclusively, usually with signal priority but only stopping at major streets, which is significant because it makes LRT rapid or express type service over local transit which is what a streetcar does
Dan416
Senior Member
I realize you're new here but no one here has a problem with LRT. Yes, many of us have issues with parts of Transit City which don't make sense. If you'd read back some threads from a year or so ago and even more recently, you'd see why.
Parts of Transity City We Like
Eglinton Crosstown LRT - for the most part, people like this. Some people think the whole thing should be subway. Or cut off the above-ground LRT and just turn the tunnel into a subway. But either way, it's a generally good idea with a lot of support.
Finch West LRT - good idea again. Some people however think the Finch LRT should include Finch East as well
Waterfront West LRT - also generally well-supported. Some people think it should extend to Port Credit, but you can't really fault the TTC for not planning that; that's MT's job
Parts of Transit City We Don't Like
Sheppard East LRT - there is a subway going from Yonge to Don Mills that initially was planned to go to Scarborough Town Centre, and then got cut to Victoria Park, and then to Don Mills. It's only logical to finish this subway line as planned
SRT Replacement - this isn't really Transit City per se, but with Miller and co. planning to replace the SRT with LRT, it's all basically the same thing. The logical thing would be to extend the Danforth line two stops for an interchange with the Sheppard line to provide some semblance of a network in Scarborough
nfitz
Superstar
Hang on ... that YOU don't like. As has been pointed out previously, there are some serious flaws in your logic.
Dan416
Senior Member
A) The majority of people polled on the parts of TC we don't like agreed (see the polls I did)
B) Flaws in our logic? I just pointed out the flaws in Transit City's logic. But thanks for playing.
EnviroTO
Senior Member
Which poll?
I would include a "parts that I'm iffy about" section as well. I would put Finch West in that category (I still think a Finch Hydro Corridor BRT would be a better investment). Otherwise, I completely agree with you.
Well, the Toronto election for one. The only guy that supported ALL of TC got his ass handed to him pretty badly. Whether or not he got his ass handed to him BECAUSE of Transit City, I doubt. But it still raises the interesting question, that if Transit City was so logically sound, why was the only candidate who supported it the guy who had a hand in it?
In the Ottawa election, both frontrunners supported the exact same plan. It was only 2nd tier candidates that were offering up "alternatives". Why? Because the plan actually makes sense.
The Mad Navigator
Banned
Would you rather demolish infrastructure for a new transit surface corridor through the financial district to make it happen? There isn't exactly much choice.
Also, I don't know what planet you live on, but you seem to think money grows on trees. You must be a winner at budgeting your finances!
And lastly, for the record, this is the 3rd time you've pointed out my avatar in correlation to my posts, if you can't say anything new, please shut up.
sixrings
Senior Member
I understand that in theory both these projects SHOULD be completed as SUBWAYS. but with limited Money I think it isnt right that Scarborough gets 90% of the expansion and the rest of the city gets scraps. I think Scarborough needs to choose what it prefers the SRT conversion or the Sheppard extension. There are too many other areas in the city that need expansion as well for the city and provincee to put all its eggs in one basket. The most logical project I would think is the Scaborough RT conversion with an extension that connects to the Sheppard LRT.
LAz
Active Member
Many reject the LRT as being rapid transit. The Sheppard LRT is just barely faster than a bus. We need something much faster, like a Subway as it was planned.
Not really. Many of us anti-trammmmmsit city folk despise it and think it's stupid.
You are not very much opposed to it. That does not mean that others are not. The argument is clear for many people - why not make that 13 km tunnel a subway from the get-go. I don't wanna ruin the topic by discussing that again, but that is the primary reason why people say yo wtf.
In an almost 2:1 ratio, people (on this forum) want the subway rather than the tramsit tram option.
http://urbantoronto.ca/showthread.php?6269-Eglinton-Crosstown-Corridor-Debate
But oh yeah, I forgot, people's opinions don't matter. What do we peons know? Other than of course, kicking out idiots from power via elections. They forgot that the old granny's vote is just as loud as their own.
edit/add:
Yeah. That's why we need to build eglinton west. Helps quiet down some folk on the west side. Up north we can build the finch lrt, and the extension to downsview. There is the construction of the northwest extension already. And then the waterfront LRT. Lots of stuff to go around, I must say. When looking at it, perhaps two extensions into Scar-town aren't as big as they initially seem.
edit/add2:
[troll]We are from the planet of the apes. As such we promote Tramsit City. Not only do we promote it, but we demand those 20 billion for new trams. Lets tram up the place. You see, that is a slower poorer alternative to the car than a subway is. I like cars you see. Therefore I hate transit and want to see more trams rather than subways. No better way to stop subway expansion. Cheers! [/Troll]
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nfitz
Superstar
Why do you make stuff up here? Don Mills to Morningside on LRT is about 12 km. At the 23-km/hr speed of the LRT it will take 31 minutes. The bus at rush-hour takes 43 minutes. The LRT will take 12 minutes less (about 40% less time) than bus. If you then replaced the LRT by subway (ignore the $3.5 billion it would take to build a subway to Morningside) it would about 23 minutes at 31 km/hr - a savings of another 8 minutes; another 35% savings.
By what possible definition is a 40% savings barely faster, but a 35% savings much faster?
I submit that you don't know what you are talking about. I also wonder where you think the $3.5 billion would come to build a subway to Morningside.