[kkgg7]

what this basically says is let's bring more suburbanites into the city more frequently.
I don't see any new lines added in the city center, where it is most needed. To whoever thinks that already makes a "world-class network", check London and Paris first and stop abusing the word "world-class".

 

[spider]

The only real way I could see to even have frequent service on CP's North Toronto Sub would be to build a bypass track along the 407 ROW, buy out and expand CN York Sub and then offer to buy operate the CTC to keep the trains running frequently. You would either do that or nationalize the entire country's rail system.

Your solution may well be successful except that it would cost maybe 10 times as much as building a full blown, all the bells and whistles DRL

The York sub is freight only and freight trains don't run on a schedule like commuter trains. Nationalizing the CN & CP to solve Toronto's transit problems won't fly, got 100 Billion more or less in your jeans to buy them out?

 

[dunkalunk]

What about a merger? Governments could incentivise it by offering to buy out paralell freight corridors (such as the CP North Toronto) and infequently used lines (Such as the Guelph Sub). (also will probably never happen)

 

[44 North]

Cool idea for a thread, Canadian Nat'l.

I'll add in a map of Toronto's Belt Line Railway. An example of a Toronto rail transit system that once (albeit, briefly) was.

Edit: Although much of the line is gone, the "existing" portions of the railway are the recreation trails from Dufferin/Eglinton to Moore Park, and into the Don Valley.

 

[TOareaFan]

what this basically says is let's bring more suburbanites into the city more frequently.
I don't see any new lines added in the city center, where it is most needed. To whoever thinks that already makes a "world-class network", check London and Paris first and stop abusing the word "world-class".

Did you have a bad experience with someone from the suburbs early in your life? You seem to have real disdain for "suburbanites"

 

[JoeParez]

Did you have a bad experience with someone from the suburbs early in your life? You seem to have real disdain for "suburbanites"

All of UrbanToronto, BlogTO, Spacing, Torontoist, etc. have a disdain for the suburbs. It's almost like suburbanites are criminals or visible racial minority.

 

[EnviroTO]

The disdain for the suburbs are defined by development style, not people. Lower density, not in walking distance of groceries, not in walking distance of restaurants and retail, not in walking distance of decent transit, and usually nowhere near work. Sure, people choose those places but the disdain isn't with the people, it is with the idea that after choosing to live there that there is an expectation of an urban level of services. It is much like living near the airport and complaining about the airport noise... why shouldn't they get to have the quiet everyone else has or why shouldn't everyone else feel the pain.

 

[JoeParez]

The disdain for the suburbs are defined by development style, not people. Lower density, not in walking distance of groceries, not in walking distance of restaurants and retail, not in walking distance of decent transit, and usually nowhere near work. Sure, people choose those places but the disdain isn't with the people, it is with the idea that after choosing to live there that there is an expectation of an urban level of services. It is much like living near the airport and complaining about the airport noise... why shouldn't they get to have the quiet everyone else has or why shouldn't everyone else feel the pain.

You see EviroTO; your explanation is something that I would definitely accept as a rebuttal in this discussion, but many times and on many websites, I've read attacks on suburbanites "the people". Arguments usually start off with "You guys.." or "People from the suburbs.." -- to which myself as someone who lives in the suburbs can turn around and say "Those of you who live downtown.." -- but it's never like that. My stance is that it's not as bad as people make it out to be, what IS bad is that the suburban lifestyle tends to lead people down lazy/lackadaisical paths often leading people to "just get in their cars" -- but still, I agree with you.

Like I was reading a comment on an article about that female cyclist that passed away this week, one commenter blamed the trucker driver and singled him out as a "905er" and said that "they" (905ers) have to adjust their attitudes when "visiting" Toronto. It's absurd. Sorry to go off topic.


Back on this topic though -- is this article correct? Isn't it CP/CN that own those corridors and not GO/Metrolinx?

 

[dunkalunk]

Metrolinx owns a good chunk of what used to be CN including the southern parts of the Georgetown Line and the tracks around union station. However, CP retains ownership of its mainline.

 

[howl]

Thank you. I think by and large it's the simplest solution to address what many people would view as common concerns. Coming in from the 905 during rush hour, there would be very few people who would actually want to get off at a smaller stop inside of Toronto. Making the train express as soon as it crossed into the City of Toronto would make the service more attractive to 905ers. And having trains stay exclusively in Toronto would help dispel the notion that GO is mainly for 905ers, seeing as how they would be the ones getting all the seats in the AM rush hour. Keeping a route inside the 416 would be very positive for Torontontians, because they would have "their train".

Assuming that there are at least 3 electrified tracks on each line, this should be pretty simple to pull off. 4 tracks would be even better.

As you probably already know GO is adding new tracks to the Georgetown and Milton lines (may other too) so that they can operate all day two way service while not having schedule conflicts with freight trains. This is already pushing the limits of the right-of-way width in many areas. Adding a milk run would require two more tracks, or at least passing tracks at every station. It's a good idea, but impossible to implement within the current right-of-way width, and expropriating land in a built-up area is a huge cost.

If we could do away with the freight trains it would be easy to implement.

 

[44 North]

]what IS bad is that the suburban lifestyle tends to lead people down lazy/lackadaisical paths often leading people to "just get in their cars" ]

And even within the realm of the "suburban" notion, there are sub-categories:
-Suburbs built with transit in mind (i.e - the older "streetcar suburbs").
-Any suburb built since the '50s where transit is not included, or added as costly and inefficient afterthought.

 

[gweed123]

As you probably already know GO is adding new tracks to the Georgetown and Milton lines (may other too) so that they can operate all day two way service while not having schedule conflicts with freight trains. This is already pushing the limits of the right-of-way width in many areas. Adding a milk run would require two more tracks, or at least passing tracks at every station. It's a good idea, but impossible to implement within the current right-of-way width, and expropriating land in a built-up area is a huge cost.

If we could do away with the freight trains it would be easy to implement.

Yes, it is rather tricky. However, because the express options would only run during rush hours, I would imagine that it would be reasonable for GO to ask (or even to pay) CP to schedule their freight operations so that they don't interfere with rush hour trains, or that the frequency of freight trains on those lines during rush hour be reduced.

BTW, this wasn't just for the Georgetown line, the line that I think this type of service would be best for would be the Lakeshore line, which is nearly entirely owned by GO, so they can do pretty much whatever they want with it.

 

[nfitz]

All of UrbanToronto, BlogTO, Spacing, Torontoist, etc. have a disdain for the suburbs. It's almost like suburbanites are criminals or visible racial minority.

Why would one ever have a disdain for a visible racial minority. Why are you comparing them to criminals?

 

[JoeParez]

Why would one ever have a disdain for a visible racial minority. Why are you comparing them to criminals?

I'm not comparing minorities to criminals, I'm saying that there are those who act as though being from the suburbs is a crime or treat suburbanites like foreigners. Is that better?

 

[Dilla]

Why would one ever have a disdain for a visible racial minority.

Let's not be disingenuous. While I can't speak to the reasoning for it, many, many do have disdain for other ethnicities.