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What do you believe should be done about the SRT?

  • Total voters
    190
I find it a bit odd that the tracks for the HRT subway are level with the tracks for the Eglinton Crosstown LRT and the Scarborough Malvern LRT. Wouldn't it be advantageous for the low-floor platforms of the LRT and the high-floor platform for the HRT be level? Maybe even share the same platform while having the tracks on different levels? At least that is how I would have designed it.
 
gweed123 said:
The other option is that you arrange the platforms so that the current side platforms on B-D become in effect island platforms, with the walls on both sides of the station being ripped out and moved back, enough to put an SLRT track on either side. It would look sort of like this:

|S # B | B # S |
|R # - | - # R |
|T # D | D # T |

This would eliminate the "Lower Bay scenario" as the trains on B-D could be timed so that the next train pulling into B-D Kennedy is not the next train to be leaving SRT Kennedy. In otherwords, each train that comes in has a matching subway or LRT train that's there waiting for it, and can leave as soon as people have moved across the platform. You can place signs in the mezanine saying which of the two platforms has the next train departing.
Click to expand...

It seems to me that such arrangement cannot work. Let's say a BD train has just arrived to Southern track, and there is no SRT trains yet. In a minute or two, SRT train arrives. It must go to the Southern track, to pick up people who arrived with the last BD train.

But now, the SRT train has brought its own passengers to the Southern track, and they want to board BD. There are only two options: a) The original BD train does not depart from the Southern track until all SRT passengers board it. This would compromise the BD headways. b) The original BD train leaves when it is due. The next BD train is on the Northern track, and the SRT passengers have to walk up / down stairs to reach it.

The scheme would work if both BD and SRT use tail crossowers. Then, BD would always arrive on Southern track and depart from Northern track, and SRT would always arrive on Northern track and depart from Southern track. But to get the tail crossover on SRT, one of its tracks would have to change levels and cross under / over BD.
 
Last edited:
W. K. Lis said:
I find it a bit odd that the tracks for the HRT subway are level with the tracks for the Eglinton Crosstown LRT and the Scarborough Malvern LRT. Wouldn't it be advantageous for the low-floor platforms of the LRT and the high-floor platform for the HRT be level? Maybe even share the same platform while having the tracks on different levels? At least that is how I would have designed it.
Click to expand...

It is possible that they will actually set platforms at the same level, and tracks at different levels based on the needs of high-floor versus low-floor vehicles. I think that it would simplify the construction of stairs and elevators.
 
Rainforest said:
It seems to me that such arrangement cannot work. Let's say a BD train has just arrived to Southern track, and there is no SRT trains yet. In a minute or two, SRT train arrives. It must go to the Southern track, to pick up people who arrived with the last BD train.

But now, the SRT train has brought its own passengers to the Southern track, and they want to board BD. There are only two options: a) The original BD train does not depart from the Southern track until all SRT passengers board it. This would compromise the BD headways. b) The original BD train leaves when it is due. The next BD train is on the Northern track, and the SRT passengers have to walk up / down stairs to reach it.

The scheme would work if both BD and SRT use tail crossowers. Then, BD would always arrive on Southern track and depart from Northern track, and SRT would always arrive on Northern track and depart from Southern track. But to get the tail crossover on SRT, one of its tracks would have to change levels and cross under / over BD.
Click to expand...

That's assuming that they both need to use both sets of tracks all the time. During rush hour, when the headway is 2 mins-ish, they can use either platform without a problem, as the wait will be minimal. But during non-peak periods, they could use only the southern track (much as they do at Sheppard-Yonge now, where the Sheppard train waits there for x number of minutes, just before the next one is about to come, then departs). Put the crossover before the station in each case, and then you can direct the train to the appropriate platform.

Even assuming 4 minute headways on each system that (for some weird reason) don't overlap, then it could go like this:

B-D at 0 min arrives at southern platform
B-D at 1 min departs southern platform
SRT at 2 min arrives southern platform (picks up passengers from B-D)
SRT at 3 min departs southern platform
B-D at 4 min arrives southern platform

Even with that non-peak arrangement, that's only 2 minutes between when SRT arrives and when B-D does. That timing can even be shortened up until the point where the northern platform is needed, mainly during peak hours. When you look at terminus stations now, outside of peak hour, there are rarely two trains waiting there to take passengers. And if there are, the one is pulling in just as the other one is leaving.
 
There is an article in Todays Scarborough Mirror of councillors such as Glen DeBearmaker and Michael Thompson pushing for a Brimley Stop on the upgraded SRT line.
 
andomano said:
It's supposed to relieve Scarborough Centre, since the lands around Brimley/Progress will eventually become condos.
Click to expand...

Yep, that's what I heard as well tonight (good to meet some UTers there).

Other tidbits:
- The work is scheduled to be complete for 2015 PanAms, so it's going to be a very tight schedule - 2 1/2 years by the estimate I heard, the time that the line will be down.
- 80 buses are being allocated to do the heavy lifting of the downtime, with some additional routes from Malvern doing direct to Kennedy, others doing a shuttle to STC from Kennedy - the bus purchases are being accelerated (with some bus lifespan extensions - I actually like the idea of 30-33 year old GM New Looks in service by that time).
- What I've heard is that while the stations are being extended/renovated, they will all be made wheelchair accessible.
- The SRT will remain part of the subway "closed fare" system, while the other LRT routes will be POP "open fare" systems.
 
I went to the open house on Monday at Jean Vanier HS about the SRT improvements and Kennedy Station and I saw all the different boards for all the plans for the different stations and I emailed the Community Liasoin officer about one of my suggestions and this is what I wrote:

"Attn. Lito Romano,

I attended one of the open houses concerning the Scarborough Rapid Transit and Kennedy Station Improvemnts and would like to comment on Ellesmere Station Plans. The tunnel just north of Ellesmere Station is going to need a major overhaul to accomodate the longer LRT cars I believe and I would like to suggest that the Ellesmere SRT(LRT) platform be below ground as well. If the future SRT were below grade with a center platform it would make this station more accessible if an elevator were added to it. The station itself with the attendent could be on the surface making it easier to add a bus bay for a future bus route such as a Progress Ave. bus could dock there.

The pedestrian tunnel could still be there but the stairs would go in the direction of north/south so the tunnel wouldn't conflict with the below grade LRT tracks."


The TTC official already emailed me back and said they were going to pass my suggestion on. The email address of this contact is Lito.Romano@ttc.ca. I have other sugestion which I am going to send about this project as well.
 
This project is now the ultimate fiasco-in-waiting.

By running closer to Ellesmere than Consilium, skipping Bellamy and Milner stops, and terminating at Sheppard (where the final one-stop stretch - retardedly, underground - will await another funding windfall), the extension will not replace a single bus route and will do little other than reduce service on the Progress bus. The ridership estimates are sheer fantasies that will never, ever be reached. The "up to 3 years" construction estimate is laughable and god knows what the cost will be. Many people at the public meeting were poring over the boards that showed potential property acquisitions (including houses and industries).

Instead of widening the dangerously narrow platforms at Scarborough Centre station, they want to add a station at Brimley that will be literally 200m from a potential western exit at STC station. Supposedly, the bus and mall patrons will use STC and the condo dwellers will be expected to use Brimley instead to spread the load out. Yeah, that'll work great. They want to spend millions of dollars and slow the whole line down instead of add a foot or two to the platform of a station that they are already entirely rebuilding. Brilliant!

Officials will invariably agree that Ellesmere station is completely pointless and used only by a few hundred kiss'n'riders and park'n'riders each day (and maybe 50-100 walk-ins), but when pressed about the need to keep it, they invariably retreat to the ever comical "how can we possibly change something that's been around this long?"

Kennedy's revamp is turning into an enormously complicated beast of a project...one amusing part is how the Morningside line will terminate east of the GO line. It seems that continuous service along Eglinton may not be possible (yet another intentional nail in the coffin of a subway extension).

People living along Brimley are going to love putting up with bus lanes and most of those 80 additional buses in front of their houses. Brimley has been suggested as a main route for these express buses, but does that mean they will not stop at Midland/Ellesmere/Lawrence East? They can't possibly not serve a critically important station like Ellesmere with the bustitutes. Some people want to add an Ellesmere bus connection directly to Ellesmere station, like Lawrence East, but it likely won't happen due to cost. That's because all the money is going to a gargantuan underground station and bus terminal at Sheppard & Progress. What stupidity.
 
Hey how about this idea: put in streetcars like it was supposed to be in the first place ;)

Tear out the tracks and pave it so we can put buses in there
 
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