[Voltz]

Projected ridership for the Finch West LRT in 2031 was 3,000 people per hour per direction, which is well what would justify a subway.

Perhaps you misread and mistyped that number, They are projecting Three Thousand (three zeros), not Thirty Thousand (four zeros) per hour per direction.

 

[Amy Rose]

The hydro corridor is a bit iffy when it comes to thought, because it might be denied. The idea about hydro corridors around Toronto is that should any high voltage tower fall, almost no one would be within proximity hopefully, and that they take up space obviously due to their size and possibly should one fall, it doesn't go into a home or shop.

 

[Thoughtless Miscreant]

Perhaps you misread and mistyped that number, They are projecting Three Thousand (three zeros), not Thirty Thousand (four zeros) per hour per direction.

I meant to write "well below".

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Projected ridership for the Finch West LRT in 2031 was 3,000 people per hour per direction, which is well below what would justify a subway.

Really? Just 3k? The 36 was packed when I was one it. The BRT is still not enough.

 

[Justin10000]

I guess it doesn't matter much to you that a lot of the highrise apartments along Finch West are actually equidistant from the Hydro Corridor as they are to Finch proper, does it? And if you really think people won't walk 300m to access transit, you're dreaming.

The demand on Finch is LOCAL. How is a busway with 1km stop spacing that is not on Finch going to benefit residents in those buildings? It most likely will not. You're making the assumption they will flock to the busway because it there! I think you're dreaming that somehow BRT will be the silver bullet in this corridor!

Again, they won't have to! My suggestion was to build BOTH the Finch Hydro Corridor BRT, and to install HOV lanes on Finch proper. No one would be "forced" to walk to the hydro corridor if they didn't want to. If they wanted to stay on the Finch bus, they could. In fact, their trip would still be faster because of the HOV lanes. But those who wanted an express ride to bypass all the strollers and stuff could take the Hydro Corridor express bus.

And both of these projects could be done for the same cost as building the Finch West LRT. To me, the choice is pretty clear which one benefits more people.

Yeah, the Finch LRT. At least it would have went directly to Humber College, and would have had a better connection at the future Finch West Station! AND be within comfortable walking distance of the employment nodes!

I supported it when it was the officially funded option for Finch. Now that it isn't, it's time to talk alternatives. Did I think it was a perfect plan? No. But it was better suited for Finch than the SELRT was for Sheppard.

The TTC studied a busway in the hydro corridor, and determined the corridor was too far from the demand. Why would things change now? The best option at the moment is median bus lanes, but that is not going to happen, and I doubt a busway will be built either.

It doesn't have to pass right by something in order to be effective. This is the difference between BRT and LRT. There can be a BRT route that runs 90% through the FHC, and then 10% on Finch itself to Humber College. Just because the Hydro Corridor busway stays completely within the hydro corridor doesnt't mean that the routes have to!

You're kidding, right? Transit can be remote, and inaccessible and still be effective? Well, it's your opinion, you're entitled to it!

And this is not a BRT vs. LRT debate. It's what is best for the corridor. A busway in the hydro corridor, considering the cost to build it, is not a wise use of funds. It won't be well used, and HOV lanes are not going to address the long-term demand. The TTC modeled the demand on Finch to be 3,000 pph. The busway which will most likely be an express bus serving a few stops will have a much lower ridership demand. Is that worth the expected $27m/km cost? No, but we are stuck with BRT for the time being. The best option is median bus lanes on Finch, and I hope the TTC has the balls to tell that to Rob the City Destroyer.

 

[Justin10000]

The hydro corridor is a bit iffy when it comes to thought, because it might be denied. The idea about hydro corridors around Toronto is that should any high voltage tower fall, almost no one would be within proximity hopefully, and that they take up space obviously due to their size and possibly should one fall, it doesn't go into a home or shop.

I think the obsession with hydro corridors is becuase since the land is there, the capital costs will be much cheaper. That is the only reason why people would want to build in such remote locations.

 

[gweed123]

I think the obsession with hydro corridors is becuase since the land is there, the capital costs will be much cheaper. That is the only reason why people would want to build in such remote locations.

It's 300m from Finch! How the hell is that "remote"?!?!

 

[W. K. Lis]

I can't see people like Rob Ford walking that distance to catch a bus along the Finch Hydro Corridor.

Nor any kind of public transit for that matter.

 

[gweed123]

The demand on Finch is LOCAL. How is a busway with 1km stop spacing that is not on Finch going to benefit residents in those buildings? It most likely will not. You're making the assumption they will flock to the busway because it there! I think you're dreaming that somehow BRT will be the silver bullet in this corridor!

Because a lot of those people are headed to the subway in the morning, and away from the subway in the afternoon. The buses are packed going into Finch in the morning, and packed when they leave in the afternoon. And you're making the assumption that nobody will use the busway because everyone is only using the bus to go a couple of blocks, which isn't the case.

Yeah, the Finch LRT. At least it would have went directly to Humber College, and would have had a better connection at the future Finch West Station! AND be within comfortable walking distance of the employment nodes!

So please explain to me how a route that runs 90% in a dedicated busway, has 50% fewer stops, and would have the exact same connection to Finch West Station be so much worse than an LRT? It would be faster, and it would get people from the subway to Humber College QUICKLY, something that an LRT stopping every 600m can't do.

The TTC studied a busway in the hydro corridor, and determined the corridor was too far from the demand. Why would things change now? The best option at the moment is median bus lanes, but that is not going to happen, and I doubt a busway will be built either.

Is that why it was included in the TTC's plan before it was scrapped in Transit City? It was studied, it was found that it would work, and it was included in the transit plan.

You're kidding, right? Transit can be remote, and inaccessible and still be effective? Well, it's your opinion, you're entitled to it!

It's not remote. It's not inaccessible (unless you're too lazy to walk 300m, in which case I pity you). And it will be effective.

And this is not a BRT vs. LRT debate. It's what is best for the corridor. A busway in the hydro corridor, considering the cost to build it, is not a wise use of funds. It won't be well used, and HOV lanes are not going to address the long-term demand. The TTC modeled the demand on Finch to be 3,000 pph. The busway which will most likely be an express bus serving a few stops will have a much lower ridership demand. Is that worth the expected $27m/km cost? No, but we are stuck with BRT for the time being. The best option is median bus lanes on Finch, and I hope the TTC has the balls to tell that to Rob the City Destroyer.

I still don't get how you can honestly argue that an option that serves BOTH local needs AND regional needs is better than a modest improvement on the existing bus service, especially when those two options would cost the same amount of money.

 

[gweed123]

I can't see people like Rob Ford walking that distance to catch a bus along the Finch Hydro Corridor.

Nor any kind of public transit for that matter.

If you're trying to design a system that caters to people like Rob Ford, you're going to need a McDonald's on every bus, with a bus stop in front of every house.

 

[sixrings]

Gweed how much would your bus route cost in comparison to a single LRT on Finch?????? Also I always thought ROB FORD didnt like LRT or Streetcars since they might hinder HIS driving experiences more then others.. SInce I cant imagine him spending too much time on Finch West why is LRT a probloem here other then finances?

 

[nfitz]

Projected ridership for the Finch West LRT in 2031 was 3,000 people per hour per direction, which is well below what would justify a subway.

Metrolinx's 2033 estimate was 4,500; though that included the stretch from Finch West (Keele) to Finch (Yonge). However they only estimated 3,100 for Sheppard East LRT. With demand almost 50% higher than Sheppard East, then subway on Finch West is a no-brainer!

 

[gweed123]

Gweed how much would your bus route cost in comparison to a single LRT on Finch?????? Also I always thought ROB FORD didnt like LRT or Streetcars since they might hinder HIS driving experiences more then others.. SInce I cant imagine him spending too much time on Finch West why is LRT a probloem here other then finances?

Marginally more than what the current bus route costs. Think about it, if the ridership on the two routes (buses in HOV lanes on Finch proper + buses on the busway) are carrying a similar number of people as the current Finch bus is, then a similar number of buses are just split between the two routes. Couple that with the fact that some of the frequency on the busway will be non-TTC vehicles (GO, YRT, VIVA), those add no operating expenses to the TTC's bottom line.

There will also be an increase in efficiency in the existing FW bus service, because instead of being stuck in traffic, the bus will have a free-flowing lane, which could shave up to 5 minutes off the trip. That allows the bus to turn around and head back in the other direction sooner, increasing the frequency of the line without actually changing the number of buses running the route.

Will some supplementary buses be needed? Probably. But the splitting of demand onto two parallel routes (express and local), increase in efficiency of the lines, and introduction of articulated buses would all be ways of increasing the capacity of the Finch routes, without substantially increasing the operating costs.

And I think LRT is a problem on Finch because it doesn't do a very good job of addressing the two distinct types of travel patterns that exist on the corridor: local, and long-haul. The stop spacing is too wide to effectively cater to the local traffic patterns (it works out that about every 2nd bus stop is being taken out, not very good for the seniors and people with strollers), while there are still too many stops to be an effective long-haul line. Does it increase the reliability of the line? Absolutely. Does it increase capacity? Absolutely. But when you try to accommodate two distinctly different (and completely opposite) travel patterns with the same line, you end up making too many compromises. Two distinct routes with two different purposes, running ~300m apart I think is the best way to ensure that the local travel patterns, and the accessibility of having local stops is maintained (while still improving the efficiency of service), while still making sure that a truly rapid and express corridor exists to effectively serve the long-haul demands that exist in northwest Toronto.

Hopefully this answered your question for you.

 

[drum118]

I can't see people like Rob Ford walking that distance to catch a bus along the Finch Hydro Corridor.

Nor any kind of public transit for that matter.

I known someone a lot smaller than Ford and he cannot walk to the Islinton Subway Station from his apartment building that happens to be the first north of the CP track. He has bitch about the 2 bus stops in front of his building as one route will not stop at the Islington stop.

Hell, you will not find me walking to/from the Finch corridor and I love walking.

The Corridor is for ""LOOOONG Haulllers""!!!! and there very few on Finch. If you spend the time walking the corridor, you will see there is no ridership demand along it.

Go to YouTube and type in TTC U BRT and you will find 15 videos I did of the ROW during construction that shows what both sides of the corridor looks like. There are a few others under different names inculding a bus ride going west on the ROW.
Here is a couple
York U BRT @ Bradford Crossing
[video=youtube;Od8xDvMn23s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od8xDvMn23s[/video]

TTC Busway from Dufferin St to York U Nov 21-09 Ride on the bus
[video=youtube;18H7WdS81zo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18H7WdS81zo[/video]

 

[Thoughtless Miscreant]

There's still the problem of the hydro corridor only going as far as Weston Road. What good is a "long-haul express line" that doesn't actually reach the people who need it the most (i.e. the people furthest from the subway)?

Really? Just 3k? The 36 was packed when I was one it. The BRT is still not enough.

If you're talking current ridership that's closer to 1000 pphpd. You can pack a lot of buses before you start needing a subway.