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Coolstar said:
Isn't extending Line 4 to the airport a waste of money though? Sheppard West fine but we already have Eglinton proposed to service the airport as well as Finch and a potential Kitchener Line branch
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Ye it most likely is. At the very least, Line 4 should be extended to Sheppard West. Anything West of that should only happen if Western North York has any serious projections in terms of developments, that would somehow justify a subway line being built 2km south of an under construction LRT.
 
Coolstar said:
Isn't extending Line 4 to the airport a waste of money though? Sheppard West fine but we already have Eglinton proposed to service the airport as well as Finch and a potential Kitchener Line branch.
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north-of-anything said:
Line 4 should be extended to Sheppard West station, absolutely, but beyond that it's more essential to improve service on Wilson.
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ARG1 said:
Ye it most likely is. At the very least, Line 4 should be extended to Sheppard West. Anything West of that should only happen if Western North York has any serious projections in terms of developments, that would somehow justify a subway line being built 2km south of an under construction LRT.
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If it were built in phases, the phases could be: 1) Sheppard West, 2) STC, 3) Airport. Those 3 make sense, in that order. The fact that the current one stops in the middle of nowhere and goes to 1 station makes it almost useless.
 
micheal_can said:
If it were built in phases, the phases could be: 1) Sheppard West, 2) STC, 3) Airport. Those 3 make sense, in that order. The fact that the current one stops in the middle of nowhere and goes to 1 station makes it almost useless.
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You've yet to answer the question why? Why have a subway that parallels an LRT this closely in a location that's not prime for development?
 
ARG1 said:
You've yet to answer the question why? Why have a subway that parallels an LRT this closely in a location that's not prime for development?
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Better question is why have LRTs that parallels the subway? When you compare the 2, Subways move more people per hour. Leaving Sheppard as is, or worse, trying to covert it to an LRT will do nothing for the network. Doing my first phase would give people in northern Toronto an option to get onto the other side of line one if they are going downtown.

Sometimes it is about existing challenges that are more important to fix than future development.
 
micheal_can said:
Better question is why have LRTs that parallels the subway? When you compare the 2, Subways move more people per hour. Leaving Sheppard as is, or worse, trying to covert it to an LRT will do nothing for the network. Doing my first phase would give people in northern Toronto an option to get onto the other side of line one if they are going downtown.

Sometimes it is about existing challenges that are more important to fix than future development.
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Oh I agree with the first 2 phases absolutely. Sheppard LRT was really stupid of a plan. I'm specifically targeting your Phase 3 idea since other than connecting North York Centre to the airport, it would be one of the most pointless and most redundant extensions. It would just be marginally faster than the Eglinton Line when that gets linked to the Airport.
 
micheal_can said:
Better question is why have LRTs that parallels the subway? When you compare the 2, Subways move more people per hour. Leaving Sheppard as is, or worse, trying to covert it to an LRT will do nothing for the network. Doing my first phase would give people in northern Toronto an option to get onto the other side of line one if they are going downtown.

Sometimes it is about existing challenges that are more important to fix than future development.
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I like the first phase, and it makes too much sense. An extension to STC is unlikely to occur under current plans, considering the Line 2 extension is going to Sheppard, which sets up that intersection for an interchange between the lines at Sheppard-McCowan, but it's serving pretty much the same place, so no problem.

As for running the Sheppard subway to the airport, I am not so sure. The Finch LRT just to the north is going to the airport, and sure, it's slower, but consider that Line 5 will also be going to the airport just to the south. Line 5's western arm is going to be entirely grade-separated and essentially a subway from Yonge-Eglinton area to YYZ; the time differences won't be significant. Between Line 5 and Finch LRT, there wouldn't be ridership demanding a subway sandwiched between them.
 
Where does it say that Line 5 will run to Pearson? Right now it's only going to Humber College. Maybe someday it will get extended but that's unfunded and likely not happening after this round of expansion is done - likely for another 25-30 years.
 
lead82 said:
Where does it say that Line 5 will run to Pearson? Right now it's only going to Humber College. Maybe someday it will get extended but that's unfunded and likely not happening after this round of expansion is done - likely for another 25-30 years.
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Line 5 = Eglinton, which I assume you made a typo and were referring to Line 6 (Finch). Line 5's western extension is heading to YYZ. For Line 6, it's simply an unfunded proposal set for some unspecified date in the future by the city's planning documents, I'll admit. It would, however, likely be built before any westward Line 4 extension, much less an extension of Line 4 all the way to YYZ.
 
I thought the West extension wouldn’t terminate at the airport until the Pearson Transit Terminal was built, and that’s been put on ice by GTAA because of the pandemic?
 
allengeorge said:
I thought the West extension wouldn’t terminate at the airport until the Pearson Transit Terminal was built, and that’s been put on ice by GTAA because of the pandemic?
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Building the Person Transit Hub will take as long it took (will take) to rebuild Union Station in downtown Toronto. Expect a decade or more.
 
ARG1 said:
Oh I agree with the first 2 phases absolutely. Sheppard LRT was really stupid of a plan. I'm specifically targeting your Phase 3 idea since other than connecting North York Centre to the airport, it would be one of the most pointless and most redundant extensions. It would just be marginally faster than the Eglinton Line when that gets linked to the Airport.
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slapped_chicken said:
I like the first phase, and it makes too much sense. An extension to STC is unlikely to occur under current plans, considering the Line 2 extension is going to Sheppard, which sets up that intersection for an interchange between the lines at Sheppard-McCowan, but it's serving pretty much the same place, so no problem.

As for running the Sheppard subway to the airport, I am not so sure. The Finch LRT just to the north is going to the airport, and sure, it's slower, but consider that Line 5 will also be going to the airport just to the south. Line 5's western arm is going to be entirely grade-separated and essentially a subway from Yonge-Eglinton area to YYZ; the time differences won't be significant. Between Line 5 and Finch LRT, there wouldn't be ridership demanding a subway sandwiched between them.
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lead82 said:
Where does it say that Line 5 will run to Pearson? Right now it's only going to Humber College. Maybe someday it will get extended but that's unfunded and likely not happening after this round of expansion is done - likely for another 25-30 years.
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slapped_chicken said:
Line 5 = Eglinton, which I assume you made a typo and were referring to Line 6 (Finch). Line 5's western extension is heading to YYZ. For Line 6, it's simply an unfunded proposal set for some unspecified date in the future by the city's planning documents, I'll admit. It would, however, likely be built before any westward Line 4 extension, much less an extension of Line 4 all the way to YYZ.
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Line 5 is going to STC and the airport eventually. Eventually Bloor will be extended to STC. Sheppard going to STC does make sense in the long term. There is plans for a "Union West" at Pearson. Extending Sheppard to it would make sense. After all, there are 2 "lines" to Union. Realistically, just going to Sheppard West would be enough to make the line useful enough.

smallspy said:
Because regardless of its capacity or ridership, a subway costs (in Toronto) about $7mil/route km to maintain. LRTs will cost a fraction of that.

Dan
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Then lets never build another subway line again. Now, lets put the ridership of Yonge onto an LRT. King and Queen streetcars show you what high ridership is like.. Some routes should be streetcar/LRT. Some should be Subway. Cost is important, but moving people efficiently should be a high priority.

Just imagine if we had left the 401 at 3 lanes, and said that it is cheaper to do that?
 
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