[EastYorkTTCFan]

Because Toronto exists in an alternate reality where global best practice does not apply.

Not really sure what you mean by global best practices. The arguments people are making for them make very little sense to me and probably make as much sense to the average person who doesn't really care how the doors open they just want them to open when they get off. The people who think it's good have probably never seen someone who is frustrated about the door not opening and they don't want to be told to push a button to open it. There are many times when I've been on buses where the driver doesn't unlock the back door of the bus so that someone can push it open, it's far simpler to open all of the doors then it is to make people do something extra that they may not understand or care to do.

Who knows I could be completely wrong and they will make people use the stupid buttons that everyone in Europe seems to love and we should use because we are behind the times. The only time I could see them being used is possibly during non peak times of the day and probably only at the outside stops which will probably confuse people anyway who aren't already confused about having to push a button in the first place.

 

[T3G]

For example, how is a blind person supposed to know where it is to be able to board or get off, are they just supposed to ask someone to help them get off? What about someone who is in a wheelchair and can't reach it from their chair safely?

I assume in the exact same way the TTC already does it?

This isn't a new thing. Figuring out how to work accessibility for the disabled into transit has been a thing for decades; the Americans with Disabilities Act was passed in 1990.

Many of the things I listed don't seem to be thought of in Europe where it seems to be ok top have to have someone book in advance to have a ramp available for them at a station. Many of the accommodations we make for disabled people so that they can be as independent as possible seem to be ignored in other places outside of Canada and the US.

Can you name a specific country and city in Europe where this is the case? According to the vast amount of traveling I have don across Europe, Canada and the US do not have a patent on caring about other people.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Can you name a specific country and city in Europe where this is the case? According to the vast amount of traveling I have don across Europe, Canada and the US do not have a patent on caring about other people.

The UK from what I've heard seems to not be very easy for someone who needs assistance or is in a wheelchair to travel as easily as someone who doesn't. Like for example if someone wants to travel on the equivalent to a Go train and needs a ramp they have to book in advance to do that instead of just being able to show up and board like they can here.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

This isn't a new thing. Figuring out how to work accessibility for the disabled into transit has been a thing for decades; the Americans with Disabilities Act was passed in 1990.

that doesn't apply in Canada we have difrent acts so not really sure why you want to cite an ameican act. I understand that they have to be accessible which is why I'm qwuest9in the need for a button to open the doors

I assume in the same way the TTC already does it?

the blue button is only to indicate to the driver that they need the ramp for assistance it doesn't do anything other than alert them so having an extra one on either Line 5 or 6 doesn't really do anything. I still fail to understand why people are obsessed whit having them when it's been shown that people don't use the or don't want to use them here. I really don't get the cold air thing if we were able to suffer through last winter with the stupidly of having the windows open then we can deal with having doors e om a train.

 

[KevinT]

I just don't really get the point of them, it sounds like a good idea on paper but when you have people who don't want to use them or can't for various reasons why bother having them in the first place it's just one more thing to get broken.

We get it, you don't get it. Goodness forbid everyone in the world not be exactly like you. Can we stop posting about this now? It's a stupid hill to die on...

 

[afransen]

I think you perhaps are suffering from a lack of perspective, and perhaps a bit too much 'fanaticism' in favour of how the TTC does things, regardless of how backward or out of step with other places. Next I wager you'll say OL shouldn't have PSD because people don't want barriers between them and the tracks. This is how Toronto has always done things and we don't want people getting confused.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

I think you perhaps are suffering from a lack of perspective, and perhaps a bit too much 'fanaticism' in favour of how the TTC does things, regardless of how backward or out of step with other places. Next I wager you'll say OL shouldn't have PSD because people don't want barriers between them and the tracks. This is how Toronto has always done things and we don't want people getting confused.

I think platform screen doors are completely different from this idea of having to push a button to open the doors. I can understand the argument for putting them on new lines. I really don't understand why people are making such a big issue about weather or not they will have the buttons active.

 

[T3G]

that doesn't apply in Canada we have difrent acts so not really sure why you want to cite an ameican act

Historical context is the reason why I cited it. We didn't just wake up yesterday and realize we need to provide disabled people with tools and opportunities to live a normal life, we have been doing so for over 30 years. We've figured out how to ensure they have the option to request stops and doors.

the blue button is only to indicate to the driver that they need the ramp for assistance it doesn't do anything other than alert them so having an extra one on either Line 5 or 6 doesn't really do anything.

I don't profess to know whether this specific button set up also open the doors, but your view of the situation at hand is far too narrow. There is nothing actually stopping that blue button from being wired to open the doors, too.

 

[Jonny5]

How do these people use elevators? Do you think they just stand around looking helpless until someone comes along and operates the elevator for them?

Or do you think elevators should just have all the floors 'pre-pressed' so people who don't feel like selecting their floor don't have to?

It's interesting how things like that are becoming archaic in office buildings. Now you select where you want to go in the elevator lobby, and it tells you which elevator is dispatched for you, and further, in many buildings now (many more since the pandemic) you have to scan a security pass to prove you are eligible to go to your selected floor. Wouldn't it be something if you had to pay the PRESTO fare outside the streetcar to get it to open the door?

 

[Steve X]

It's interesting how things like that are becoming archaic in office buildings. Now you select where you want to go in the elevator lobby, and it tells you which elevator is dispatched for you, and further, in many buildings now (many more since the pandemic) you have to scan a security pass to prove you are eligible to go to your selected floor. Wouldn't it be something if you had to pay the PRESTO fare outside the streetcar to get it to open the door?

Just wait till the replace all the buttons with a touch screen. You scan your pass and your eligible selections show up. You won't even know how many floors up or down the build would have.

 

[NoahB]

I wasted 10min reading three pages dedicated to explaining why using a button to open a door is a useful idea, and 2 hours having a headache from watching people get mad that one person just doesn't get it™.

Can we talk about more fun things like the shape and size of the stop button instead?

 

[turini2]

The UK from what I've heard seems to not be very easy for someone who needs assistance or is in a wheelchair to travel as easily as someone who doesn't. Like for example if someone wants to travel on the equivalent to a Go train and needs a ramp they have to book in advance to do that instead of just being able to show up and board like they can here.

A nice, modern accessible station with step free from street to train - someone can turn up and go anytime. All contemporary light rail systems in the UK are like this, as well as accessible Tube stations and new/rebuilt railway stations. Just turn up and go.

An older railway station - one that hasn't been retrofitted - you would need a ramp to board the train, as you would on the GO train. People are recommended to book in advance (especially for intercity services), so that there's guaranteed space on the train for a wheelchair user, and that there's a ramp ready for them at their arrival/departure station.

Not perfect sure, but it will be a long time before the 2,500+ National Rail stations in the UK are all universally accessible...

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Can we talk about more fun things like the shape and size of the stop button instead?

You'd have to go to the Union Station Revitalization thread for that.

AoD

 

[turbanplanner]

Because Toronto exists in an alternate reality where global best practice does not apply.

I can accept that it makes sense for LRTs to make all stops (true for any grade separated vehicle) to avoid bunching. You're just wrong when it comes to the doors. There is no good reason to open them at every. single. stop. if no one is using the door at that stop. I can concede the point perhaps at major transfers where a high volume of turnover is expected.

I have used buses. I have to press the door to open it. Even dumb as rocks Ontarians apparently could figure it out.

This is why I'm so hesitant to trust "experts" here

 

[superelevation]

There are two flavours of Citadis... the Urban Tramway model, and the LRV model. The Urban model has the same module pattern as the Flexity with C1-N2-B0-N2-C1 (C1 = Cab with 1 door (and bogie), N2 = Non-bogie middle with 2 doors (Flexity is one), and B0 = Bogie middle (no doors)) whereas the LRV model has longer modules and is C2-B2-D1-C2 (C2 = Cab 2 doors, B2 = Bogie 2 doors, and D1 = Double-bogie 1 door). Because of the longer modules and irregular pattern of doors and bogies the whole vehicle looks messed up.

Worth adding to this that the "LRV" model is really the tram train model derived from the Citadis Dualis, the design of the train with a centre car with two bogies and the remainder "hanging" on both sides enables more stability and higher speeds iirc.