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MTown said:
The entire war could have been avoided if it weren't for that treacherous Bastard. Him and Halifax should be buried. They were part of the problem of why the establishment was in denial. Didn't do anything of real consequence to help with rearmament. Ignored reports from their own agents and diplomats...except the appeasing ass-licker they had in Berlin.
Sold out allies.
Ignored facts.
Failed completely.
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As we all know, politicians aren't usually guided by facts and reports but by trying to read the tea leaves to do what they think the voters want in order to get or keep power. Great Britain was only 20 years off loosing 700,000 in WWI (France - 1.3M). Perhaps it was a matter of 'hoping against hope' or whistling past the graveyard by both the population and the politicians. Interesting point about the increased war production from 1937. Most of the Allied nations were woefully unprepared. Heck, even the US only had an army of about 180K in 1939.
 
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lenaitch said:
As we all know, politicians aren't usually guided by facts and reports but by trying to read the tea leaves to do what they think the voters want in order to get or keep power. Great Britain was only 20 years off loosing 700,000 in WWI (France - 1.3M). Perhaps it was a matter of 'hoping against hope' or whistling past the graveyard by both the population and the politicians. Interest point about the increased war production from 1937. Most of the Allied nations were woefully unprepared. Heck, even the US only had an army of about 180K in 1939.
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Canada belonged to the same category as well - and given the way the winds are blowing, it maybe time for us to seriously up defence spending again.

AoD
 
lenaitch said:
As we all know, politicians aren't usually guided by facts and reports but by trying to read the tea leaves to do what they think the voters want in order to get or keep power. Great Britain was only 20 years off loosing 700,000 in WWI (France - 1.3M). Perhaps it was a matter of 'hoping against hope' or whistling past the graveyard by both the population and the politicians. Interest point about the increased war production from 1937. Most of the Allied nations were woefully unprepared. Heck, even the US only had an army of about 180K in 1939.
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Yeah, this is true and the public didn't start turning til Czechoslovakia (which still hasn't recovered entirely from the national disaster that is 1938-1993), but the fact remains.....Chamberlain and his lackeys could have stopped all of it from happening if they weren't so concerned with business and retaining power.

Two generations of Czechoslovakians (I'm well aware it's two separate countries now.....but for some of us we will be one forever) had their souls crushed starting with British appeasement. Chamberlain is swine. So is Trump, getting back to the topic at hand.


PS: I suggest checking out William Manchester's The Last Lion: Alone 1932-1940
It's the second of three volumes of his Churchill biography. This particular volume is depressing AF having to read all about the rat appeasers and their shady MO.

Rolling over for autocrats is always a good time. See also: Canada-China
 
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MTown said:
The entire war could have been avoided if it weren't for that treacherous Bastard.
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By May 1937, after a decade or more of British disarmament, the only thing Chamberlain can do to avoid Britain's part in starting the war is to not guarantee Poland's security in March 1939, and thus not declare war on Germany. Everyone else in Europe still gets smashed of course.

No, it's on PM Baldwin (and France) for not reacting swiftly to the Remilitarization of the Rhineland in 1936. That was the chance to stop Germany flat.
 
MTown said:
PS: I suggest checking out William Manchester's The Last Lion: Alone 1932-1940
It's the second of three volumes of his Churchill biography. This particular volume is depressing AF having to read all about the rat appeasers and their shady MO.
Click to expand...

I've read the third book - I should put this one on my gift list.

tiffer24 said:
Trump today says he wants American people to treat him like North Koreans treat totalitarian dictator Kim Jong Un.

"Hey, he's the head of a country, and he's the strong head -- he speaks and his people sit up at attention. I want my people to do the same."
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I've always felt he had more of a soft spot for autocratic leaders like Putin and Kim than he does for leaders of liberal democracies. I suppose if he heaped similar praise on the leaders of Cuba it would cost him Florida. It will be interesting if he starts coming out in favour of Erdogan of Turkey who is consolidating power and dreaming of Ottoman 2.0. He seems to be sidling up to Russia which is causing sleepless nights at NATO. He is supposed to start taking deliveries of the F-35 and folks are worried that Russian techs will be all over it. If NATO forces him out they drive him into other arms.
 
tiffer24 said:
Trump today says he wants American people to treat him like North Koreans treat totalitarian dictator Kim Jong Un.

"Hey, he's the head of a country, and he's the strong head -- he speaks and his people sit up at attention. I want my people to do the same."
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This isn't the least bit surprising. What was the end result of the prognostications about him being a narcissist?
 
Admiral Beez said:
By May 1937, after a decade or more of British disarmament, the only thing Chamberlain can do to avoid Britain's part in starting the war is to not guarantee Poland's security in March 1939, and thus not declare war on Germany. Everyone else in Europe still gets smashed of course.

No, it's on PM Baldwin (and France) for not reacting swiftly to the Remilitarization of the Rhineland in 1936. That was the chance to stop Germany flat.
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Yeah, France at the time were being weird, waiting on British leadership.

One of the worst parts of it all is that Hitler's own generals were plotting to overthrow him because they feared allied reprisal. They were beyond surprised when nothing happened and they were allowed to do as they please.
 
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lenaitch said:
I've read the third book - I should put this one on my gift list.
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Get the first volume as well. The whole thing is brilliant. Churchill was just mental in his younger days. His (mis)adventures in South Africa during the Boer War are just awesome and his trench warfare days during WWI are legend.
 
I’m not saying I support Trump, but it’s easy to see why the Republicans should feel hopeful. The economy is growing rapidly without a major uptick in inflation and headline unemployment is low. Sure the party is slowly gutting Obamacare, but a large majority of the population has decent coverage, whether through Medicare or private employee plans. There’s a lot to like in the big picture. I know, I know...federal debt is growing at an unsustainable rate and some day things will get nasty. But that day is not this day!
 
pman said:
. I know, I know...federal debt is growing at an unsustainable rate and some day things will get nasty. But that day is not this day!
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I guess. I'm one for living in the moment and all, but even I'm paying off my debts.

I even live by the motto "If it doesn't have to be done today, don't do it" and I'm still paying off my debts.

There's carefree and then there's careless. They're not the same thing.
 
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