I guess it depends who you are.
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- Thread starter W. K. Lis
- Start date
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Doug Ford's pal is still at it...
Frustrated Trump ousts US defence secretary Jim Mattis early
See link.
Frustrated Trump ousts US defence secretary Jim Mattis early
See link.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
BurlOak
Senior Member
USA TODAY: 'Blatant racism': Ky. high school apologizes following backlash after video shows students surrounding indigenous marchers
I don't know what can be done against this FakeNews onslaught. The entire MSM has lost their credibility.
These kids were singled out, identified and vilified, without any of the media even double checking the story. They were the best behaved ones at the protest.
I imagine a lawsuit is in order - but I don't think it will stop the FakeNews. After all, it's not just 1 outlet - it's the entire industry.
I don't know what can be done against this FakeNews onslaught. The entire MSM has lost their credibility.
These kids were singled out, identified and vilified, without any of the media even double checking the story. They were the best behaved ones at the protest.
I imagine a lawsuit is in order - but I don't think it will stop the FakeNews. After all, it's not just 1 outlet - it's the entire industry.
JGHali
Active Member
Yes, yes, it's all of rich tapestry of conspiracies.
EagleEye
Senior Member
Right. Maga hats, Tomahawk chop, making fun of the drummer.
Northern Light
Superstar
Let's separate out the maybe(s), the what ifs and the suppositions from the agreed upon facts shall we?
Young men, students of an all-male catholic high school from Kentucky, were on an official high school field trip, to attend a rally against a woman's right to choose.
This was not done on their own time, or with their parents, but on a school field trip, about this, there is no dispute.
Let's stop right there and ask if there is anything remotely appropriate about such a trip?
No reflexes here.......this is not a freedom of speech question, this is a school field trip question. Would you, as a Conservative minded person, be ok with public school students (as part of an official school trip) attending a rally that
removed men's rights, or sought to seize private property?
Let's be honest, the answer is no.
Had the trip not occurred, none of this happens.
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Let's move on to agreed upon fact two. A substantial number of the young students in question were wearing MAGA hats.
These are clearly associated with Mr. Trump and with what could only charitably be called the politics of division. That would be true even if you agreed w/said politics as no one would suggest
he is not controversial.
They were wearing these hats while on an official school field trip. I would consider it normative that on field trips with one's school one is discouraged from wearing anything that would be seen to be offensive
or controversial since you don't want to attract negative attention for yourself or your school.
Clearly not the case here.
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Now lets turn to fact three, we can agree that a group calling itself the Black Hebrews was absolutely goading and taunting the young men, and that is unacceptable.
However, there were 5 of them, and a school group that was literally larger by more than an order of magnitude. No one disputes this.
The students had chaperones with them.
Would not one assume, that the most reasonable protocol would be to move your students away from the problem people, to ensure the situation does not escalate?
That would hardly seem unreasonable, in fact I would suggest it was an obligation. Imagine if a physical altercation had ensued?
So what did the chaperones/students do?
They did not move away, even though they were in a large public plaza with ample room to avoid 5 people.
Instead, they (the students) and began counter-chanting, apparently with their chaperones explicit permission! From there, they also formed a semi-circle around the 5 people behaving badly.
No one disputes this.
No matter what the kids said at this point, this is a very dubious strategic choice for which the adults w/these students should be held accountable.
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While unquestionably the media was too quick to publish names, and to make allegations that have not been fully substantiated (though they have not been fully repudiated either) ....
There is little question that these kids were in DC for unacceptable reasons, they engaged in their own baiting/goading by wearing offensive caps, at the minimum, and they did not move to de-escalate a tense
situation, but instead inflamed it by moving closer to, and chanting at the 5 obnoxious persons.
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Lastly, is there any reason to wonder, whether or not a few of these students might have said something offensive, given that that allegation was made against them?
The MAGA hats certainly seem to endorse some views that would be offensive to many...........but is there anything more than that?
Indeed there is.......
Linked below, find an article that students at this school were in blackface at a basketball game within the last 5 or so years (video link at the article site).
The event appears to have the full sanction of the school, as a coach can be seen leading students in chants.
That would certainly suffice, in my mind, as reasonable grounds to suspect some students at the school might say something intolerant in a public place.
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/na...an-phillips-nick-sandmann-20190121-story.html
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In summation:
The field trip itself was offensive, had it not happened nothing to talk about.
The kids were engaged in non-subtle offensive behavior through their apparel choice, even once it was clear there was potential for a negative situation to unfold.
The kids should have been shepherded away from a potential altercation by the chaperones, this did not happen in more than two hours of video........self-inflicted wound.
The school has a history of controversial behavior by its students that would generally be understood as having racist/insensitive undertones.....to say the least.
The media's reporting was sloppy, and reckless no matter what was actually said; but that does not excuse any of the above.
But neither does the above countenance in any way the death threats this young man has received which should be investigated as criminal matters.
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Videodrome
Senior Member
Actually, some people did ID the smirking kid, but didn't reveal the name. It was his mom, who blamed "Black muslims," that went public.
BurlOak
Senior Member
They were rallying to support life. Not every country is like Canada and supports killing the unborn right up until the day before they are born. Actually, I think no other country is like this.
It's not a public school.
If the Black or Indigenous protesters did not show up - this would not have happened either. Irrelevant point.
It's actually associated with improving the safety and economy of America. Now, 2 years after the election, it has become associated with providing employment for Blacks and Hispanics.
Don't see it being controversial wearing campaign material from a major (the winning) party. It's not like a Swastika, Hamas flag, or Hammer and Sickle.
They likely judged that the situation was not out of Control. It didn't appear close to physical at all to me.
I imagine part of the trip was to learn about peaceful protest and how some people (the Black Hebrews) behave at a protest.
Big question.
Ha ha
It was just verbal - not that tense.
The video doesn't work, so I will base my comment on the still photo.
First, if this occurred a couple of years back (2015), it is likely a different group of kids.
Next, I can't tell if they are meant to be "black face", or dressed in black. At first glance it looks like a school spirit thing to be dress all in Black as everyone is doing it.
Next, "black face" is a specific black character. I know plenty of people who went out to Halloween as Michael Jackson. It wasn't black face, it was Michael Jackson.
I see no Afros, no big red lips. 1 guy has no mouth. 1 has a joker style mouth. - so I would tentatively conclude that it was not meant to be offensive.
Good thing that the Vancouver fans didn't live in LA.
BurlOak
Senior Member
The Black Hebrews were the most at fault for using racist, homophobic language.
The Indigenous was next at fault for going right in the faces of the youths.
The youths did a good job keeping their composure. If I were chaperone, I likely would have moved the kids away, but maybe they knew how well behaved and composed they could be and trusted their students.
The story has nothing to do with the events at the Lincoln Memorial, because although it can be said that all did not behave as angels, the behavior of even the worst was not that bad. It was likely viewed as a learning opportunity as the kids left on the bus - realizing how obnoxious some protesters can be.
The story is that the Indigenous elder told a lie to the Media, and the media did nothing to verify the story. They were so blinded by their hatred of Trump, that they threw the minors under the bus and subjected them to taunts and death threats.
When more of the story came out, it became apparent that the Indigenous elder approached the kids - and not the other way around.. The youth most singled out did not say anything to provoke the indigenous. It has now come out that he is not a war vet. The media bought this lie hook-line-and-sinker and ignored all journalistic standards just because they hate Trump.
That is the definition of FakeNews.
JGHali
Active Member
You think elective terminations occur up to 40 weeks? Many provinces limit therapeutic abortion up to 16 weeks gestation, with up to 20-24 weeks in some circumstances. Nowhere in the country do elective abortions occur "up until the day" before expected delivery. Demonstrably false. Fake News even.
Northern Light
Superstar
@JGHali has already addressed this above as completely preposterous.
Now let me add to that, the March for Life rally is not about limited third trimester abortions........its about removing women's right to choose altogether.
Further, the position of the Catholic church has been anti-condom and anti-birth control and anti-sex ed...........such that abortion (or unwanted pregnancy) is a logical outcome along with STDs.
No group of people is less fit to protest abortion that those who oppose those things that would reduce its frequency.
I hadn't missed that.
What you missed was that its a school, using children as a pawn in a political and ideological battle that is likely to harm their future employment prospects and public perceptions of them.
That is not the mission of a school. Nor is it a school's mission to endorse putting students in a position of danger, or failing to move them out of one should it come to them.
I oppose them indoctrinating youth as it is.............but I am much more vehement in saying that at the very least that should be limited to the classroom.
Not irrelevant. The Black/Indigenous protesters were not there under the auspices of supervising adults and teachers who should know better.
Not by anyone with a three digit IQ
Actually, while I don't yet wish to equate Mr. Trump w/ any of those..............yet...........it is indeed remarkably similar. The Nazis did in fact form the largest plurality in the German parliament after the 1933 election.
They also won on a platform that might have been called MGGA.............Make Germany Great Again. Or
"Machen Sie Deutschland wieder großartig" Which admittedly doesn't lend itself to rolling off the English-speaking tongue quite so easily.
You don't know what the judged.
Your imagination is not relevant.
BurlOak
Senior Member
That's not the point. In Canada, as opposed to almost every other county, the fetus is not considered human until born. There could be zero public funding for abortions and it still wouldn't change that fact.
I was in a public school and was forced to write a protest letter against the seal hunt. At a private school, I imagine the parents likely support this view and protest.
Trump = Hitler.
Godwin's law
Once Nazi's are invoked I win.
Northern Light
Superstar
First, I did not and would not support you being compelled to write a protest letter against a subject of someone else's choosing. I think you could and should have objected. Irrespective of my position on the issue. (which may or may not surprise you)
Further, a protest letter, however inappropriate I may find it, is a fair bit less involved than a field trip to an actual protest, where one will actually be filmed.
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My quote clearly says I don't draw the association in question. You win nothing.
Northern Light
Superstar
Referencing the post above:
Before I can even consider responding, you have many errors here which make this post almost unreadable.
Please fix the quotes.
That said, its not likely we have much to talk about as I would place your views as so extreme, so untenable and so outside the norm as to classify them as pure trolling.
I will reconsider that position once I have a readable post to look at.
Before I can even consider responding, you have many errors here which make this post almost unreadable.
Please fix the quotes.
That said, its not likely we have much to talk about as I would place your views as so extreme, so untenable and so outside the norm as to classify them as pure trolling.
I will reconsider that position once I have a readable post to look at.