[gristle]

What specific rights are you worried about?

The way this thread reads, it's like one massive gol-dern conspiracy out there.

 

[AKS]

Rights like if I ever went outside and was loitering (waiting for someone) but didn't bring any ID, I wouldn't get taken away by the police. If I happened to be walking outside and somehow got mixed in with protesters (or I felt strongly about an issue I had to protest about) I wouldn't be rounded up and detained like those were and get stripped and given racist and sexist remarks. Or if I went out, I get pushed against the wall and searched without reason.


Awhile back, my aunt went to buy take out dinner. The police chased her and told her to get out of the car. They asked what was in her car and pushed her against the car roughly and searched her. Apparently they did it to a few others too. Makes me wonder if they are allowed to randomly search people. And I kind of wonder if it's racial profiling too.

 

[Darwinkgo]

Rights like if I ever went outside and was loitering (waiting for someone) but didn't bring any ID, I wouldn't get taken away by the police. If I happened to be walking outside and somehow got mixed in with protesters (or I felt strongly about an issue I had to protest about) I wouldn't be rounded up and detained like those were and get stripped and given racist and sexist remarks. Or if I went out, I get pushed against the wall and searched without reason.


Awhile back, my aunt went to buy take out dinner. The police chased her and told her to get out of the car. They asked what was in her car and pushed her against the car roughly and searched her. Apparently they did it to a few others too. Makes me wonder if they are allowed to randomly search people. And I kind of wonder if it's racial profiling too.

As long as they have probable cause, they can detain, search, and seize. If there was a crime they were investigating, looking for suspect or evidence fleeing a scene there is even more latitude. Police aren't allowed to go on fishing expeditions, which is why police don't require every car passing through a ride check to do a breathilizer, they have to smell alcohol on youur breath, or have cause from your actions to compell a sample. When they know through good old fashioned police work young people, mostly white, Quebecois are coming to stir things up, it isn't racial profiling in the negative sense to give extra attention to people fitting the discription.

As for right against detainment, too many people focus on this one:

9. Everyone has the right not to be arbitrarily detained or imprisoned.

While ignoring the one that explains the recourse and measure in interpreting that right

10. Everyone has the right on arrest or detention

(a) to be informed promptly of the reasons therefor;
(b) to retain and instruct counsel without delay and to be informed of that right; and
(c) to have the validity of the detention determined by way of habeas corpus and to be released if the detention is not lawful.

We have the right to be released if the detention is not lawful, there are no charges, etc. The case law allows 24 hours in normal circumstances for visiting council, and for release. Being released without charge does not make an arrest arbitrary.

 

[Asterix]

I am absolutely certain that if the cops had arrested this guy for torching a police cruiser they would have announced his arrest with great fanfare and they would have released his picture to the public "in case he is involved in other crimes".

Let's suppose your little theory is correct and this particular troublemaker is a cop, sent in to give the riot squad an excuse to bust heads (boy, they sure failed to bust much in the way of heads though).

For this to be true, the following would have to had happen:

The police would have been stupid enough to send this guy in without a mask or disguise of any kind, to stand out from the crowd taking pictures and video and deliberately cause damage.

His image has now been plastered all over the internet. Yet not a single one of the couple hundred of this guy's fellow police officers who would have worked with him at some point professionally have leaked to the media that this guy was a police plant.

The police information containment squad has also collared every one of this guys friends and family members, making sure none of them let slip that 'hey, that's Constable Smith trashing the police car!'

The control-freak authorities have also quarantined his entire neighbourhood, because the last thing they'd need is somebody calling up the Toronto Star to say 'that's Constable Smith from just down my street, smashing the police car'

The real Men In Black from the Federal government have also visited all the friends and family members of all the other police officers who know Constable Smith professionally because out of a couple hundred cops in on the big secret, one of them is bound to casually mention to someone who the police 'really got those protestors good' with their undercover Constable Smith. Can't have a single person publicly identifying Constable Smith as actually being Contable Smith and not just some random out-of-town moron looking to stir up a little trouble.

CSIS would also be heavily involved going after each and every internet posting containing this guy's image because have a single video or picture of him kicking the police cruiser is pretty well guaranteed to be seen by someone who would recognize the unmasked Constable Smith as being Constable Smith and not Comrade Johnson the anarchist goon.

All this would be conducted to perfection without a single slip up by any of the thousands involved in the conspiracy, by the same folks who couldn't keep track of which theoretical weapons they confiscated from which arrest.

So, given the above, on the balance of probabilities, what do you REALLY think the chances are that this guy is a cop?

 

[urbandreamer]

That "wanted guy" looks like an old co-worker of mine. He was into anti-capitalist protests, always was ranting about "pigs" etc, but since I can't be 100% certain, I'm not gonna turn him in. Also, just another cop car--the cops are happy, they get another new Ford Taurus-based cop car replacement!

 

[Darwinkgo]

That "wanted guy" looks like an old co-worker of mine. He was into anti-capitalist protests, always was ranting about "pigs" etc, but since I can't be 100% certain, I'm not gonna turn him in. Also, just another cop car--the cops are happy, they get another new Ford Taurus-based cop car replacement!

It isn't your job to be 100% certain -there is a reason we have juries and some such here.

 

[urbandreamer]

^RR, you spoke to soon. A friend of mine is a RIM temp, and was told to stay home today (temps aren't good enough for the Queen.) However, at the last minute, they allowed the temps to stand outside and catch a glimpse of the Queen arriving at RIM HQ Waterloo, so she did so. She says there were snipers on the roof, cops in riot gear everywhere. Crazy! Just a stupid suburban work site in Waterloo!

(Why the Queen would want to tour a factory? I wouldn't bother.)

 

[nfitz]

She says there were snipers on the roof, cops in riot gear everywhere.

Riot gear? I'd be surprised; I saw her at King and Church in Toronto yesterday (you know, near where we had riots recently), and the cops weren't in riot gear. Now those riding motorcycles who lead the convoy were wearing motorcycle helmets ... is this what she saw?

I didn't see any snipers either ... though there might have been. Security in Toronto seemed very tame really ... presumably Buckingham Palace protocols over-ride the TPS's paranoia.

 

[PinkLucy]

I saw her leaving Porter after she returned from Waterloo; again, no riot gear, just some motorcycle cops, bike cops and a couple of mounted police. Pedestrians were allowed through, it was all pretty calm. Also saw her yesterday at St. James; same kind of thing. Maybe RIM was more concerned about their own security? Or Waterloo cops were more worried than Toronto cops?

 

[Admiral Beez]

It wasn't just Journalists and TTC employees. There were many other innocent people who were captured. Problem with Toronto is the idea "If I wasn't involved in it or it didn't happen to me. Then it's not a big issue. Who cares." They don't seem to realize, it could be them that was captured and treated that way. People wouldn't put themselves in other people's shoes to see how it feels like.

Going downtown on the Sunday was akin to walking through Pamplona during the running of the bulls. Sure, you have a right to be downtown, maybe it was your job to be downtown, whatever, but if you get run over by a bull, you can't really complain. There was a riot going on downtown the night before, and you still chose to go downtown the next day for whatever reason.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/830832 "73 per cent of Torontonians and two-thirds of Canadians believe police treatment of protesters was justified during the G20 summit." That's good enough for me.

 

[adma]

Going downtown on the Sunday was akin to walking through Pamplona during the running of the bulls. Sure, you have a right to be downtown, maybe it was your job to be downtown, whatever, but if you get run over by a bull, you can't really complain.

And re the following Sunday downtown, substitute "bear" for "bull";-)

 

[ShonTron]

Going downtown on the Sunday was akin to walking through Pamplona during the running of the bulls. Sure, you have a right to be downtown, maybe it was your job to be downtown, whatever, but if you get run over by a bull, you can't really complain. There was a riot going on downtown the night before, and you still chose to go downtown the next day for whatever reason.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/830832 "73 per cent of Torontonians and two-thirds of Canadians believe police treatment of protesters was justified during the G20 summit." That's good enough for me.

I'm getting really tired of the same re-hashed right-wing comments justifying what happened Sunday. Pampalona has an official route, the streets are blocked, people being trampled by bulls went there to take part in that very strange tradition they have there, and the run route ends at the bullfighting arena, every year, every time.

People live downtown. There's quite a few condos surrounding Queen and Spadina, where the police corralled and arrested everyone no matter their reasons for being trapped there. People work downtown. I had to work the weekend specifically because of the summits. People shop, eat, be entertained downtown. There was still a major jazz festival downtown, Second City was running, as were most restaurants and most stores downtown.

I'm sure the TTC employee had it coming. He asked for it, just like the people running ahead of the bulls in Pampalona.

I'm saddened that there are so many people who just don't care about real or even alleged police abuses and senior government officials lying - and even admitting so after the fact - to the public,perhaps because they see a few dozen douchebags looking to trash store windows and a few who torched police cars, justifies 900+ arrests (all but a handful released without charge) and inhumane conditions.

 

[Peepers]

Going downtown on the Sunday was akin to walking through Pamplona during the running of the bulls. Sure, you have a right to be downtown, maybe it was your job to be downtown, whatever, but if you get run over by a bull, you can't really complain. There was a riot going on downtown the night before, and you still chose to go downtown the next day for whatever reason.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/830832 "73 per cent of Torontonians and two-thirds of Canadians believe police treatment of protesters was justified during the G20 summit." That's good enough for me.

The problem with this argument is the fact that the threats came not from Bulls but from the very people paid to protect us - the Police and a small group of anarchists who the police ALLOWED to go on a rampage on Saturday ( http://www.torontosun.com/news/columnists/joe_warmington/2010/06/30/14564416.html ). Does it not make you angry that an order was given NOT to engage the black-bloc? That they were ALLOWED to wreak havoc? Did the police even arrest one single vandal? If they have they are keeping these arrests a big secret. Does it not make you angry that among those arrested were young girls - some underage - who were subjected to strip searches and sexual humiliation (a 17 year old girl was forced to urinate in front of a male cop). Imagine being a parent of one of these girls who were illegally detained under deplorable conditions? I would be out of mind with rage!

Also you didn't have to be right downtown. One of the biggest protests happened on Friday in Allan Gardens. Right on the edge of Cabbagetown and probably less then a mile from where you live.

And yet you blame people for putting themselves in a situation where they will be arrested?

 

[Peepers]

Let's suppose your little theory is correct and this particular troublemaker is a cop, sent in to give the riot squad an excuse to bust heads (boy, they sure failed to bust much in the way of heads though).

For this to be true, the following would have to had happen:

The police would have been stupid enough to send this guy in without a mask or disguise of any kind, to stand out from the crowd taking pictures and video and deliberately cause damage.

His image has now been plastered all over the internet. Yet not a single one of the couple hundred of this guy's fellow police officers who would have worked with him at some point professionally have leaked to the media that this guy was a police plant.

I didn't say that he was a Toronto officer or for that matter an officer from any Canadian law enforcement agency. He could have been recruited from outside the country. A paid operative that was brought into the country and put up in a safe-house during the duration of the G20. The fact that he was so bold as to show is face proves two things 1) he was not afraid of getting arrested 2) He was not afraid of being identified by this photograph since there is probably zero media coverage of this story where he is from. In fact there has been zero media coverage of him in Toronto! The media has not plastered his picture in the papers (despite the fact that he is one of the few unmasked black-bloc protesters). Even the Toronto Police haven't posted his picture on their website. I will say it again, if he HAD been arrested I have no doubt the Police would have announced his arrest with great fanfare. Look at the example they are making of the IT expert arrested in a raid on his Forest Hill home! Apparently his only crime was he planned to embarrass the police

 

[urbandreamer]

^Probably. Also, keep in mind it was one of the actual assembly lines she visited--gotta be spooked by the peasants.... WPS=squaresville. It was a major event for them.

I wonder how the Queen put up with the heat today? Stop at Timmie's in downtown Kitchener for an ice cap?