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darwink said:
Moving another post-secondary downtown. Hopefully the province, SAIT, The City and ACAD can arrange this to happen when ACAD's lease is up at SAIT. Maybe to the Telus Convention Centre?
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Convention centre would be great.If not, maybe East Village. One of the parcels along the CP tracks would also be good.
 
gsunnyg said:
K so I hope this proves what Im saying. I took Calgarys Downtown neighbourhood populations of 25-34 age group added it with the beltline from 2014 got 14443 people between the ages of 25-34 living in the core (excluding Mission), the only outlier was East Village which was under construction in 2014. Now I found Toronto's core population figures from 2011. 58 k people in the 25-34 age group live in the Toronto core, out of the overall population of 413k for this age group. So basically Calgary has 6.85% of its 25-34 age group living in the Core while Toronto has 14% of its 25-34 age group in the city living in the core. Thats just over double! I know Toronto is flanked by other cities so its not perfect to compare the two but this should paint a descent picture. We do have a problem!
https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/u...rhood-population-profiles-aoda-07-04-2016.pdf

Edit* forgot to mention i realize Toronto core can hold a greater population, but what we're looking at here is how much of that youth population chooses to live in the core proportionately to the overall population
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It's always interesting looking at data like this. Do you know what is the difference in area ratio between core/city of Calgary and Toronto?
 
Spring2008 said:
Some good points, but I'm not sure what else you can do to attract families to Downtown/Beltline besides focusing on safety, playgrounds/parkspaces, and similar amenities which the city is doing quite well in. Most parents would choose not to live in a highrise, me included. In Van/TO families are living in small apartments because they can't afford a townhouse/detached house etc. and even if they could afford million dollar plus houses, they're not willing to commute 1-2 hrs each way to get to downtown. Anecdotally, I notice a lot of young families in Calgary's inner-ring communities, so I think the City is doing well on this front. The new RC-G zoning for example is making rowhousing easier to build. Most of our inner-city communities are clean, safe, with lots of new playgrounds/parkspace, good amount of schools. It's a big win for attracting more families in these established neighborhoods versus sprawl. This is one of the key way Calgary will add density over the next few decades.
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In my experience this is very true. Many of my friends, 10 years ago, lived in the Beltline. As they got married and had kids they moved out, but not to the suburbs. They now live in Renfrew, Killarney, Capital Hill, Mount Pleasant, Tuxedo Park, Bankview (the rich ones), Point McKay, Montgomery, Mayland Heights and Wildwood. I'd estimate that 90% of them purchased infills. They all still work and play downtown and are raising a whole new generation who see that as the norm.
 
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gsunnyg said:
K so I hope this proves what Im saying. I took Calgarys Downtown neighbourhood populations of 25-34 age group added it with the beltline from 2014 got 14443 people between the ages of 25-34 living in the core (excluding Mission), the only outlier was East Village which was under construction in 2014. Now I found Toronto's core population figures from 2011. 58 k people in the 25-34 age group live in the Toronto core, out of the overall population of 413k for this age group. So basically Calgary has 6.85% of its 25-34 age group living in the Core while Toronto has 14% of its 25-34 age group in the city living in the core. Thats just over double! I know Toronto is flanked by other cities so its not perfect to compare the two but this should paint a descent picture. We do have a problem!
https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/u...rhood-population-profiles-aoda-07-04-2016.pdf

Edit* forgot to mention i realize Toronto core can hold a greater population, but what we're looking at here is how much of that youth population chooses to live in the core proportionately to the overall population
Click to expand...

That report defines Toronto's core as being bound by the Lake Ontario, Bathurst, Dupont-Davenport-Bloor, and the parkway. Including Kensington, Inglewood/Ramsay, Bridgeland, Mission and Bankview would be a better comparison.
 
I think it's apples to oranges to compare Calgary to Toronto. Toronto is going to be much more dense, for a variety of reasons. It's an older city, it's a much larger city, and geographically its core radiates 180 degrees outwards. Toronto is massive and despite what some forum folks on Urban Toronto might say...it's a global city.
I would compare to cities like Edmonton, Winnipeg and Ottawa. More-so Edm and Win, as they are prairie cities of similar age. Or compare Calgary to places like Buffalo, Oklahoma City or Hartford. I think we do very well in these types of comparisons.

I do understand where @gsunnyg is coming from and the city can still work on improving the vitality of its core.
 
Cowtown said:
I think it's apples to oranges to compare Calgary to Toronto. Toronto is going to be much more dense, for a variety of reasons. It's an older city, it's a much larger city, and geographically its core radiates 180 degrees outwards. Toronto is massive and despite what some forum folks on Urban Toronto might say...it's a global city.
I would compare to cities like Edmonton, Winnipeg and Ottawa. More-so Edm and Win, as they are prairie cities of similar age. Or compare Calgary to places like Buffalo, Oklahoma City or Hartford. I think we do very well in these types of comparisons.

I do understand where @gsunnyg is coming from and the city can still work on improving the vitality of its core.
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I don't think many would make a lateral comparison of Calgary and Toronto, but what stands out in that report posted by gsunnyg is that Toronto defines it's core around a mixture of different neighborhoods ranging from mixed use, to commercial, to single family-- all of which are integrated and connected. The same is apparent in Montreal and Vancouver. I would say Calgary too, is moving in that direction.
 
gsunnyg said:
K so I hope this proves what Im saying. I took Calgarys Downtown neighbourhood populations of 25-34 age group added it with the beltline from 2014 got 14443 people between the ages of 25-34 living in the core (excluding Mission), the only outlier was East Village which was under construction in 2014. Now I found Toronto's core population figures from 2011. 58 k people in the 25-34 age group live in the Toronto core, out of the overall population of 413k for this age group. So basically Calgary has 6.85% of its 25-34 age group living in the Core while Toronto has 14% of its 25-34 age group in the city living in the core. Thats just over double! I know Toronto is flanked by other cities so its not perfect to compare the two but this should paint a descent picture. We do have a problem!
https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/u...rhood-population-profiles-aoda-07-04-2016.pdf

Edit* forgot to mention i realize Toronto core can hold a greater population, but what we're looking at here is how much of that youth population chooses to live in the core proportionately to the overall population
Click to expand...

What criteria did you use to define "core" areas in each City respectively? Are you using particular neighbourhoods within a certain distance of the CBD? Are the areas you have established a similar sized area (not in population but in land area) compared to the city as a whole?

For the total city, did you use just Toronto itself, the amalgamated city (including Etobicoke, York, North York and Scarborough), the GTA (CMA) (includes cities like Mississauga, Ajax, Brampton, Vaughn and Markham) or the Golden Horseshoe (includes Hamilton) ? Why did you use 2011 numbers for Toronto vs 2014 for Calgary? Are you using the national census or civic census?

This is lazy analysis.
 
retrofiturbanism said:
What criteria did you use to define "core" areas in each City respectively? Are you using particular neighbourhoods within a certain distance of the CBD? Are the areas you have established a similar sized area (not in population but in land area) compared to the city as a whole?

For the total city, did you use just Toronto itself, the amalgamated city (including Etobicoke, York, North York and Scarborough), the GTA (CMA) (includes cities like Mississauga, Ajax, Brampton, Vaughn and Markham) or the Golden Horseshoe (includes Hamilton) ? Why did you use 2011 numbers for Toronto vs 2014 for Calgary? Are you using the national census or civic census?

This is lazy analysis.
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Good on u for being a smarta** about it, I clearly used what the census by Toronto compiled as the core. For the total city I used just Toronto not the GTA and 2011 were the only numbers available, if anything the and updated version of 2018 of Calgary and Toronto would still have Toronto slaughtering in the youth category especially with the lack of housing affordability making condos more attractive. I understand there are a hundreds of variables to assume with this data but I looked at in simple proportional matter without complicating things or we would be here all day discussing about what if's. If anything your ur lack of commitment to follow up on the numbers I shared is what i find more lazy.
 
Cowtown said:
I think it's apples to oranges to compare Calgary to Toronto. Toronto is going to be much more dense, for a variety of reasons. It's an older city, it's a much larger city, and geographically its core radiates 180 degrees outwards. Toronto is massive and despite what some forum folks on Urban Toronto might say...it's a global city.
I would compare to cities like Edmonton, Winnipeg and Ottawa. More-so Edm and Win, as they are prairie cities of similar age. Or compare Calgary to places like Buffalo, Oklahoma City or Hartford. I think we do very well in these types of comparisons.

I do understand where @gsunnyg is coming from and the city can still work on improving the vitality of its core.
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I agree we could probably add more neighbourhoods to the data but like I said, I looked at this as merely from a proportional aspect of what we tend to define our core and how it matches up, you gotta realize our city population is under half too so Toronto core is bound to be represented a lot bigger in area. But just to add Calgary and Toronto probably aren't the best examples to compare but I don't think we should be comparing ourselves to any of those cities u mentioned, I mean they aren't known for having great cores in terms of vibrancy and density. We're definitely better than those cities but then again there are a lot of other cities that outdo our core so I think we should be looking in that positive direction!
 
Disraeli said:
That report defines Toronto's core as being bound by the Lake Ontario, Bathurst, Dupont-Davenport-Bloor, and the parkway. Including Kensington, Inglewood/Ramsay, Bridgeland, Mission and Bankview would be a better comparison.
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K so I tried your method adding up extra inner city neighbourhoods just for the sake of proving the point I'm trying to make, I got roughly 10% making up the 25-34 age group (for Kensington I used Hillhurst). Still behind by 4% and now I think with that method the area of Calgarys core gets bigger than Toronto's which shouldn't be how we look at it simply because Toronto has a much larger population so its bound to have a much bigger defined core. From this rough calculation, either we can agree that Calgary does not simply have enough people living in its core relative to its suburbs hence confirming the obvious problem of sprawl or we can start concluding we don't attract enough youth as we first assumed compared to a city like Toronto. Lastly, i would like to add, roughly skimming the numbers of Calgarys core and comparing the number of family ages living in the Toronto core is also seriously slacking. This is in no way of me trying to prove a sloppy method but its more for a general idea which I pointed out initially, we don't drive enough youth into our core, so we can have a discussion on that and how to fix the issue rather than how badly my rough comparison method is.
 
gsunnyg said:
K so I tried your method adding up extra inner city neighbourhoods just for the sake of proving the point I'm trying to make, I got roughly 10% making up the 25-34 age group (for Kensington I used Hillhurst). Still behind by 4% and now I think with that method the area of Calgarys core gets bigger than Toronto's which shouldn't be how we look at it simply because Toronto has a much larger population so its bound to have a much bigger defined core. From this rough calculation, either we can agree that Calgary does not simply have enough people living in its core relative to its suburbs hence confirming the obvious problem of sprawl or we can start concluding we don't attract enough youth as we first assumed compared to a city like Toronto. Lastly, i would like to add, roughly skimming the numbers of Calgarys core and comparing the number of family ages living in the Toronto core is also seriously slacking. This is in no way of me trying to prove a sloppy method but its more for a general idea which I pointed out initially, we don't drive enough youth into our core, so we can have a discussion on that and how to fix the issue rather than how badly my rough comparison method is.
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Thanks for taking the time to flesh out some numbers for comparison sakes. But yeah i hear what you are saying, that 25-34 demographic is important and adds a lot of vibrancy to inner cities. Apart from some areas, Calgary's core isn't the most hip place for a twenty something to spend their time and it seems the focus is too much on the white collar rather than the plaid collar.
 
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