The_Waffler
Active Member
Contract to a non-union operator and you don't have to worry about a strike. Honda and Toyota workers make good bread, are treated well, and they don't have a union. The threat of one keeps them honest.
|
|
|
- Thread starter syn
- Start date
Contract to a non-union operator and you don't have to worry about a strike. Honda and Toyota workers make good bread, are treated well, and they don't have a union. The threat of one keeps them honest.
GraphicMatt
Looking forward to a FRESH START for Toronto
I'm not sure of the legalities of not letting unionized organizations bid on tendered contracts. I'd bet there are some roadblocks there.
lafard
Active Member
There is the fair wage policy, which Ford wants to scrap. I doubt McGuinty will play along with that one.
We can't easily contract out a lot of stuff, laws aside, the logistics of contracting out to a city of this size give reason to pause.
For the TTC, for example, you can't just fire all the subway operators and hire new ones. It takes six months to train them and the facilities don't have capacity to train hundreds concurrently. They've got you. If you tried union busting they could go on strike, the arbitrator would probably rule in their favour, they'd lose nothing and the Mayor would look just as bad as Miller did after the garbage strike. You could try contracting them out but that really doesn't save any money.
We can't easily contract out a lot of stuff, laws aside, the logistics of contracting out to a city of this size give reason to pause.
For the TTC, for example, you can't just fire all the subway operators and hire new ones. It takes six months to train them and the facilities don't have capacity to train hundreds concurrently. They've got you. If you tried union busting they could go on strike, the arbitrator would probably rule in their favour, they'd lose nothing and the Mayor would look just as bad as Miller did after the garbage strike. You could try contracting them out but that really doesn't save any money.
avenirv
New Member
but ferrari, lamborghini, masseratti, audi, mercedes, bmw manufacture better cars and are 100% unionized. in germani the law 30% of the board seats belong to trade unions. and yet germany is booming and everybody dreams of buying a mercedes or bmw or audi.
btw, please the full truth: in japan honda and toyota are unionized. oooooooooooooooooooooops.
btw, please the full truth: in japan honda and toyota are unionized. oooooooooooooooooooooops.
avenirv
New Member
do you talk about investment bankers ? look what they did around.
G
gabe
Guest
You can't generalize all unions, unions in the public sector is a whole different animal. In the private sector unions are needed now more than ever, with so many foreign owned companies screwing over employees especially the workers with the higher wages like engineers and trade workers, Clearly having an education and experience in some non unionized plants is useless. Unions prevent employers from even attempting to screw over a worker and win every single time.
nfitz
Superstar
How do you stop the employees from unionizing after operator has contract?
ssiguy2
Senior Member
For good or ill the unions are here to stay.
That said there are many ways Toronto could change the status quo.
Make things like transit an essential service just as are police officers and nurses etc. They would still have other options when negotiating such as work to rule. That means no overtime, refusal to cover other people shifts due to sick time etc. The City could work with Queen's Park to bring this about and it would get overwhelming support from nearly all as it is a true essential service.
Another thing which is totally within Toronto's City Hall control is contract tenders. This idea of only allowing unionized contractors to bid on infastructure is obsurd. This is why infastructure costs so much more in Toronto than other cities.
That said there are many ways Toronto could change the status quo.
Make things like transit an essential service just as are police officers and nurses etc. They would still have other options when negotiating such as work to rule. That means no overtime, refusal to cover other people shifts due to sick time etc. The City could work with Queen's Park to bring this about and it would get overwhelming support from nearly all as it is a true essential service.
Another thing which is totally within Toronto's City Hall control is contract tenders. This idea of only allowing unionized contractors to bid on infastructure is obsurd. This is why infastructure costs so much more in Toronto than other cities.
Asterix
Active Member
I don't suppose you've looked at the resulting costs due to increased imposed salaries that come about from essential services? Whether we like it or not, since they don't have the right to strike, arbitrators have consistently ensured they are paid a premium for giving up that right.
That's a choice Toronto taxpayers have to make - do we want to pay more in salaries to ensure they never go on strike, or go with cheaper costs and hope that the mayor/city negotiators are able to reach a reasonable settlement without becoming pig-headed and forcing them to strike.
How many private construction companies are there that do not have unionized workforces? I was under the impression that for most of the trades, they are all unionized, so it certainly isn't like there is an abundance of non-unionized shops just begging for major infrastructure work from Toronto, if only they would be allowed to bid.
spider
Senior Member
A few years ago a company and its union were locked in combat over a new agreement, things were going nowhere and both parties were unhappy.
The company offered management positions (doing the same job) to as many of the employees as they felt they needed to continue their operations, enough people accepted the offer. The union and its surplus or otherwise unproductive members picketed the gates for a few months and then packed it in.
The company and its workers/managers initiated a forum that replaced the union.
Too bad this solution is too simplistic for a problem the size of the TTC or CUPE
The company offered management positions (doing the same job) to as many of the employees as they felt they needed to continue their operations, enough people accepted the offer. The union and its surplus or otherwise unproductive members picketed the gates for a few months and then packed it in.
The company and its workers/managers initiated a forum that replaced the union.
Too bad this solution is too simplistic for a problem the size of the TTC or CUPE
lafard
Active Member
Didn't VIVA go on strike a few years ago, despite being a private contractor?
denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
I agree that unions have too much power, but there seems to be a sense of jealousy amongst some about unions period. Why is it "If I cant get everything, no on else can." If you go to school and get a degree, you made that choice to be a slave in a office until you reach 65 years of age.
Last edited:
denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
That is true. In Cambridge, the average Toyota worker makes $85,000, with a degree and full benefits.
The_Waffler
Active Member
That's nice, Honda/Toyota operations in Ontario are non-union. We are in Ontario, right? Point was that it is quite possible to operate without a union.
No thanks, you can keep your German car, I'll keep my Element.
The_Waffler
Active Member
Well, one way would be to treat them fairly and pay them well. Efficiencies in being non-union don't come from paying workers a low wage... they come from flexible work rules.