Disparishun
Active Member
Are they invisible to everyone else?
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- Thread starter wyliepoon
- Start date
Are they invisible to everyone else?
adma
Superstar
How vizmin can you get
Admiral Beez
Superstar
My family's immigrant story certainly started in the suburbs. We arrived from Britain in 1976 (I was five years old) and rented a townhouse in Meadowvale, Mississauga. Two years later my parents bought a house at Winston Churchill and Derry.
But, with my Dad working downtown it made no sense to live in the 'burbs, so my parents sold the big Mississauga house and bought a bungalow north of Kingston Rd. in the "upper" beach (debatable real estate jargon, I know. To me, upper beach is anything north of Queen, south of Kingston Rd).
Moving to Toronto was the smartest thing our parents could have ever done for us. I could now readily and easily take transit everywhere, had access to great bike trails, vast part-time employment opportunities (try finding a part time job in Meadowvale in 1985, it's there, but hard to find), access to free city swimming pools (you don't find that in 'Ssauga) and for whatever reason I connected with a much more academically-focused crowd that the pot-smoking hosers I used to hang out with in Meadowvale.
When it came time to buy a place in 1998 (after getting my uni degree in Ottawa), I chose Cabbagetown, even though my work was at Highway 7 and 400 in Vaughan. Soon enough I landed a job at Yonge and Lawrence, and life was grand. I've had other jobs since then, and lived in Fredericton for three years, but am now back in Cabbagetown.
Speaking as an immigrant, I'd say downtown living is far, far better than the 'burbs.
But, with my Dad working downtown it made no sense to live in the 'burbs, so my parents sold the big Mississauga house and bought a bungalow north of Kingston Rd. in the "upper" beach (debatable real estate jargon, I know. To me, upper beach is anything north of Queen, south of Kingston Rd).
Moving to Toronto was the smartest thing our parents could have ever done for us. I could now readily and easily take transit everywhere, had access to great bike trails, vast part-time employment opportunities (try finding a part time job in Meadowvale in 1985, it's there, but hard to find), access to free city swimming pools (you don't find that in 'Ssauga) and for whatever reason I connected with a much more academically-focused crowd that the pot-smoking hosers I used to hang out with in Meadowvale.
When it came time to buy a place in 1998 (after getting my uni degree in Ottawa), I chose Cabbagetown, even though my work was at Highway 7 and 400 in Vaughan. Soon enough I landed a job at Yonge and Lawrence, and life was grand. I've had other jobs since then, and lived in Fredericton for three years, but am now back in Cabbagetown.
Speaking as an immigrant, I'd say downtown living is far, far better than the 'burbs.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
It is more expensive to live in car-friendly Mississauga than in transit-friendly Toronto. More money is spent on transportation (fuel, maintenance, insurance, fines) if you are dependent on the auto. If you use a Metropass, the costs is fixed. To lower the cost of autos, you must have more passengers to lower the costs. Since immigrants usually are not by themselves, so they find they are able to live in the suburbs. However, once they are by themselves, the suburbs become an isolated oasis.
Check out this Housing + Transportion site http://htaindex.cnt.org/ for an Affordability Index using U.S. cities. I would like to see one on Canadian cities.
Check out this Housing + Transportion site http://htaindex.cnt.org/ for an Affordability Index using U.S. cities. I would like to see one on Canadian cities.
TrickyRicky
Senior Member
Anecdotally I notice that both the buying and renting population in the downtown west is becoming increasingly white anglo-canadian or mixed couples where one individual is white anglo-canadian. These are increasingly people with kids or the intention to have kids in an urban environment. This is not surprising to me personally because I grew up in the ex-urbs of Toronto and I would say 3/4 of my peers who attended university now live in either the Old City of Toronto or equivalent urban settings in other major cities in Canada and the world. This actually is a disturbing trend for suburban neighbourhoods in my opinion. The immigrant families moving into suburbs are good hard-working and intelligent people but they're ideal of making-it is already diverging from the established order. It says something when the privileged establishment moves away bit-by-bit and their off-spring have no intention of returning. In the long-run this suggest to me that while some suburbs will remain middle-class and upper-middle class perhaps the majority will actually increasingly see falling income levels. My guess is that we are already seeing this. My parents sold my childhood home (perhaps a little dated in style) in the ex-urbs that had acres of land and they could barely get a sale. The buyers were incidentally first generation visible minorities. Contrast this to the house I purchased in the city from a first generation visible minority who was retiring to the suburbs. It's value now exceeds my parents old home and has been climbing consistently at about $50,000 per year.
allabootmatt
Senior Member
I am reminded of a story someone told me about a friend who moved from Montreal to the Beaches, and really didn't "get" his new neighbourhood. He had an epiphany, he said, when we realised that it was basically Chinatown for white people.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
It's the same in downtown east. If you saw the playground at Wincester Public School in Cabbagetown, just south of Saint Jamestown you'd swear you were in Barrie, almost exclusively white kids.
MisterF
Senior Member
Second generation people aren't immigrants. I think the main answer to this is people moving to North America want the suburban dream of a big house with a big yard and two cars and a dog and birds chirping in the forests and people joining hands and singing....
Okay maybe not that last part. My point is that while immigrants tend to want the suburban lifestyle, their kids who become as mainstream Canadian as anyone with English roots are more likely to want an urban lifestyle. My parents are immigrants and they live in an exurban estate lot in Ennismore township, and they moved into the country the first chance they got. All four of their kids now live in urban areas of varying sizes.
BTW, is anyone else annoyed by the term "New Canadians"? It's so pointlessly politically correct!!
As much I hate to say it I don't agree with you on this. At least not in my case. Most of my family from my age group, either second generation, or like me first generation but a baby when we came here, are suburbanites. Out of the 20 or 25 people I know in this category only 4 or 5 made their way downtown. Considering our parents all first settled in the St Clair/Oakwood area that says something. Most of my cousins find it funny that I decided to move into a condo in the St Lawrence Market area and not in a house somewhere in 905 or near NYCC (where I grew up). Totally foreign to them.
theman23
Active Member
Yeah, you're right. I'm a bit inconsistent with my definition of "immigrant"-I always seem to change it.
While most of the people moving in and gentrifying our downtowns are "mainstream Canadians", the vast majority of these are still settling in the suburbs. I think the key words are "more likely"- still not likely, but probably more likely than their parents. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of it has to do with the fear of becoming like one's parents.