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Many thanks for that link! Fig 4.2, pdf page 33:
[3b. Local road network can only accommodate the increase in peak traffic demand generated by an additional 500spaces.]
In all fairness, the "very strong correlation between parking spaces and ridership at that station despite all the bus routes leading to it" will be during peak hours. Off-peak, I suspect most are coming off of local and GO bus transit. At Bramalea, I've noticed travelling later in the morning on the Mt Pleasant train soutbound that a large number come off connecting buses (GO and regional/local) but people still park and ride, but few do at Brampton.

Curious...
 
Metrolinx might agree to accelerate the mobility hub plans and scale back parking if Brampton was willing to run something other than buses to the station; like some kind of an LRT feeding in ridership from central/northern parts of Mississauga.

The only LRT ever discussed going into the station area was/is the H(M)LRT that (for now) stops at Steeles.....whether it ever gets to Brampton GO (and how it does get there) will have very minimal impact on the customer transit patterns at that station. So there will, for the very long future, be a strong reliance on the bust network feeding the station.
 
Off-peak, I suspect most are coming off of local and GO bus transit.

With a ridership of 1600 per day (in 2010, I don't know of any more recent station specific numbers) I'm unsure how much those 20? people during the entire off-peak actually matter.
 
With a ridership of 1600 per day (in 2010, I don't know of any more recent station specific numbers) I'm unsure how much those 20? people during the entire off-peak actually matter.
well, if the offpeak people don't matter ( ;) ) we can save a ton of public money...because we seem to be spending a lot of it to make off peak travel matter.
 
With a ridership of 1600 per day (in 2010, I don't know of any more recent station specific numbers) I'm unsure how much those 20? people during the entire off-peak actually matter.
"20?". Well I can guarantee that figure is way-off, as the last three times I've taken the 11:00 AM (correction: 12 Noon) eastbound from Mt Pleasant, at least fifty passengers have swarmed on at Brampton, almost every one a student, college of some sort. I've often wondered: 'Is there a college nearby in Brampton?' These were obviously not individuals who parked at Brampton, they had backsacks and computers with them, predominantly southern Asian. They doubled or more the passenger load on the train. Most at Mt Pleasant had transferred from buses, albeit some parked.
 
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well, if the offpeak people don't matter ( ;) ) we can save a ton of public money...because we seem to be spending a lot of it to make off peak travel matter.

Hah. Indeed.

Off-peak ridership at the time that count was done certainly wasn't causing congestion around downtown Brampton.

Off-peak ridership is a capital cheap growth opportunity and considering the success of the TTC is growing off-peak ridership (relative to peak-period ridership) over the last decade it seems an obvious area for GO to invest in.
 
Speaking of GO RER electrification deadlines -- completion would be roughly ~2025 -- coincidentially on time for Expo 2025.

On this note, the deadline for Toronto submitting an "intent to bid" (not the official bid, but an intent to bid) for Expo 2025 is May 1st, 2016. Tick tock!

As of January, Toronto was still exploring whether to bid. Recent activity on Twitter indicates this appears this could happen to keep Toronto's hat in the game. Kristyn Wong-Tam is highly active on this file, making many recent presentations.

If Canada gets awarded, this would pretty much literally be a hard deadline for RER, and makes it hard for the next government to rollback GO RER/electrification.

Wonder if this is a good thing or bad thing?

Offtopic expo expense concerns aside, I'd lean towards good (overall) towards GO RER construction. Though we've seen what project-rushing did for PanAm. That said, it is a hugely far better overall "infrastructure spend" than the PanAm projects -- worse comes to worse, electrification can at least be completed on the most electrification-prioritized candidates (LSE/LSW/Pearson/Bramalea). One major concern I would have is the last-minute construction reassignment -- such as construction staff being pulled away from other projects (like, say, Hamilton LRT) to complete others on time for the Expo.
 
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That said, it is a hugely far better overall "infrastructure spend" than the PanAm projects

Way off topic but I would be interested in knowing what you know that lets you make that bold of a statement....feel free to direct message me with it so as to not take this off topic.
 
Wonder if this is a good thing or bad thing?
BAD!

Instead of catering to circuses, this regime is learning the hard way that *it must cater to realism* or be defeated. And I really hope Toronto has learned the lesson many other cities have on this.
 
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I'll probably wait to dive into non-GO-related Expo 2025 discussion until the bid happens...

Separately of "is it a good idea?" given Ontario finances, but it is a completely different question and potentially different answer than "will it help GO infrastructure?" which was the original intent of my mentioning the expo. Since this is not a done deal and it may all be moot, the last thing I will say on the ranking matter ("vs Olympics" "vs PanAm"), is generally for Canada itself, expos are ranked above Canadian Olympics (which are ranked above Canadian PanAm) in infrastructure spinoffs, given Montreal Expo 67 and Vancouver Expo 86 experiences (The 1976 Olympics is a different story altogether).

Just like '67 and '86 started the respective cities' first subway/elevated systems -- given Toronto's fully schizophrenic history in public transit, expos provide a form of transit project encouragement and anti-cancellation policy for Canada's first electric RER system (European-style migration of traditional rail commuter service into a high-frequency 2-way transit integrated system now fully worthy of being part of subway maps) -- a GO transit construction project of this thread namesake. Also it would utilize pre-existing projects that have more flexible scopes (e.g. GO RER, as some route completions is delayable) rather than more niche projects like UPX. One problem is politicians may try to cram new projects into the scope.

The cost efficiency of the spending is always a legitimate question, but historically has indeed occurred in infrastructure that would otherwise not occur when it did (e.g. less likely to be postponed/cancelled by a subsequent government). Even the SmartTrack "circus" (now that Eglinton heavy rail is removed) is simply otherwise useful tweaks to GO RER that are far more minor than the typical fighting between choosing a BRT, LRT or subway (political spin notwithstanding -- it is more elementary "looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it is a duck" when it comes to RER vs ST).

Also, UPX-style mistakes being repeated so soon is historically (on average!) less likely to happen with lessons applied to subsequent projects occuring right after. Granted UPX being steered the best they can into the GO system already with "About time! Better late than never!" kudos -- with clear indications they don't want to back themselves into an inflexible corner when they begin GO electrification. The RER buildout/operation is much more flexible, not every single station/mile of RER desparately is "must finish at all costs" by expo (heck, they could delay electrifying north of Aurora if Metrolinx still have a ton of diesel trains and EMU manufacturing is delayed -- it's not going do do the expo one iota of a hoot). The Expo 2025 would simply help cement the system into proceeding, rather than a monolithic "must finish every mile & station at all costs" project. The whole electrified GO network doesn't prevent diesel Bombardier BiLevels from merrily going their way under the catenary, in the event of EMU delivery delays -- focus the first EMU deliveries as far as Kitchener electrification goes, and LSW/LSE. Flexibility better than UPX is not rocket science. But starting the GO RER buildout without delay is critical. We've really full throttle forward on a lot of rail infrastructure in full expectation of RER electrification -- Georgetown Corridor overbuilt for present service, Crosstown LRT improved interchanges with expected all-day GO lines, massive increase in Union offpeak utilization (or else it's an Auramall disaster offpeak), etc.

Delaying/cancelling RER -- one of Canada's biggest ever transit megaprojects in all of history -- is hugely costly, and likely far outweighs any real/perceived "circus" or "waste" cost of Expo 2025.

Whatever color you vote for, 4 years is not enough for whatever new major mass-transit system you prefer be installed -- particularly anything remotely resembling the biggest GO transit construction in history with potentially a gigantically huge overall cancellation penalty (combined together, whatever cost/reputation/economic/congestion/less GTHA-wide tax revenue in the next 30 years/etc) that may conceivably potentially massively outweigh an Expo "circus/waste cost" (whether perceived or real) no matter how much you hate it -- especially in Toronto's special post-almagamation situation. One can love GO RER and hate Expo, or vice versa, those are two different opinions.

Given GO RER/electrification being a long-planned project with far better overall (systemwide on average) transit case, with plenty of more-inexpensive deadline-miss cost, more-incremental, less-mandatory-rush, more scope-shift opportunities (e.g. delay electrification to specific stations/lines, reschedule specific stations, reassign train fleet around, to complete during or after Expo) than UPX which was monolithically pigeonholed as being essential to PanAm. It's a 6 month visit-anytime event, not a 2-week photobulb flash. In past expos, sometimes a transit line opened partially and finished opening before the expo closed 6 months later, without disastrous results. I admit that my statements will create replies that goes off the scope of the GO transit construction projects which I originally mentioned the expo relating to.
 
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I think that Expo 2025 would be a great thing for transit in general. One only has to look at Montreal to see how one Expo can leave a lasting legacy when it comes to transit infrastructure. Yes, Montreal was planning on building a subway anyway, but the timing, routing, and scope of many of the lines was determined by Expo.

The Portlands is the site most touted for an Expo site, so you could bet that a GO RER station around Cherry/Unilever, the East Bayfront LRT, and an LRT extension into the Portlands would all be on the priority list. I also wouldn't be surprised to see some kind of short connector LRT line between King and the DRL station along Queen (whether it be at Parliament or River, TBD) as an extension of the Cherry spur. This would provide direct LRT links to the Portlands from either Union or the DRL.

Most of the rollout of Phase I of RER should be finished/wrapping up by 2025 though, so we'd mainly be looking at lines like Milton and Richmond Hill during that time frame.

But yes, a successful Expo 2025 bid would staple GO RER to the table as a "can not cancel" item.
 
But yes, a successful Expo 2025 bid would staple GO RER to the table as a "can not cancel" item.
Yes, more cement for existing transit initiatives, especially GO RER, in transit-schizophrenic Toronto.

Lots of the current transit initiatives (LRTs, RER, etc) coincide with dates just before Expo 2025. This is already roughly an order-of-magnitude surge of rail transit projects being planned/constructed (LRTs+RER combined) compared to status quo -- one that cannot afford the boondoggle and wasted expense of several more postponement roll of dice of the last two decades.

Yes, an essential station near(ish) Cherry or thereabouts. Fortunately the line itself is well studied, given the need for the GO EMU Maintenance & Storage Facility which includes Whitby (Lakeshore East), and nearby Cherry/Leslie Barns infrastructure already providing a ready-made jump-off point for a very short streetcar extension to expo grounds / Cherry Beach / future docklands residences / etc without the expensive construction-delaying processes of trying to keep a very major arterial open during streetcar construction.

I am however, skeptical, about DRL being built on time if an expo occurs. ;)
Sure, it could pave the way, maybe even usefully trigger & cement the DRL construction momentum. And yes, we should rough-it-in during RER/Cherry streetcar planning, but focus should be on cementing the current (overall very sensible on average) huge rail transit surge, including the very important overall GO RER plan from being scaled back/cancelled/or postponed into more decadal delays.
 
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