denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
Nice to see! Hopefully in 2018 we can all take a ride to Mount Joy and back.
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- Thread starter drum118
- Start date
robmausser
Senior Member
Can't wait until the Kitchener, Barrie and Stouffville lines are like the Lakeshore lines with hourly bi directional and weekend service! Such a long time coming.
raptor
Senior Member
muller877
Senior Member
Let's wait until the slides for the Niagara meeting are uploaded. Will be interesting to hear about the issues between St Kitts and NF (crossing the canal)
raptor
Senior Member
Non-Update on RER operation from the Dec 7 Metrolinx Board meeting
Allandale25
Senior Member
crs1026
Superstar
^ Taking those two reports together, it's pretty apparent that ML does not intend to be the hands-on builder or operator of RER and intends to contract the whole business out. Except for the face to the customer, that is.
That's not good or bad in itself - it's certainly closer to the model used in other places - but it's a huge transformation of GO Transit into a contracted-out business. And a whole lot of things to sort out before anyone worries about whether Track X gets built or whether there will be a stop at Y.
I would like to think that it's a visionary adjustment, but it reeks of "we don't know how to actually do any of this, and rather than learn, let's just hire someone to do it for us".
Certainly, as this progresses it's going to be impossible for any of us taxpayers to find out if the construction at bridge X is behind schedule or over budget. Those kinds of details will get lost in the contract. And the politicians will be firewalled from any of it.
I wonder if Patrick Brown has figured this out. If you roll the TTC subway into this enterprise, as his platform suggests, it could be contracted out as well. I'm sure some eyebrows would be raised by the employee body, but maybe the TTC union sees this as a way to spread its jurisdiction into the GO realm.... they would represent subway workers via successor rights alongside Teamsters and others representing GO Operations. Sooner or later, somebody will raid somebody else.
This transformation appears to be falling into place without anyone debating this or even taking credit for it.
And here we were just wondering why the construction is taking so long. Silly us - maybe these guys have a higher level agenda and we are down in the fine details.
- Paul
That's not good or bad in itself - it's certainly closer to the model used in other places - but it's a huge transformation of GO Transit into a contracted-out business. And a whole lot of things to sort out before anyone worries about whether Track X gets built or whether there will be a stop at Y.
I would like to think that it's a visionary adjustment, but it reeks of "we don't know how to actually do any of this, and rather than learn, let's just hire someone to do it for us".
Certainly, as this progresses it's going to be impossible for any of us taxpayers to find out if the construction at bridge X is behind schedule or over budget. Those kinds of details will get lost in the contract. And the politicians will be firewalled from any of it.
I wonder if Patrick Brown has figured this out. If you roll the TTC subway into this enterprise, as his platform suggests, it could be contracted out as well. I'm sure some eyebrows would be raised by the employee body, but maybe the TTC union sees this as a way to spread its jurisdiction into the GO realm.... they would represent subway workers via successor rights alongside Teamsters and others representing GO Operations. Sooner or later, somebody will raid somebody else.
This transformation appears to be falling into place without anyone debating this or even taking credit for it.
And here we were just wondering why the construction is taking so long. Silly us - maybe these guys have a higher level agenda and we are down in the fine details.
- Paul
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amnesiajune
Senior Member
Go Trains are already a contracted-out business. Every capital project is built as a P3 and Bombardier operates their trains. Metrolinx just owns the trains and most of the railways.
It would definitely be contracted out... to the TTC! That's already the plan for Eglinton and Finch. Metrolinx will have one contractor who maintains the track and trains, and the TTC will essentially be sole-sourced to operate the trains.
mdrejhon
Senior Member
You accidentally grabbed the wrong link....
Your link is an edit link, your correct YouTube link should be:
Code:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P99bIYC8OvkWhich automatically gets turned into an inserted video:
crs1026
Superstar
Finally found the time to chew through all the transit relevant documents that went to Toronto City Council for this week's Council meeting. Lo and behold, there was this Regional Express Rail Program Update, prepared by City staff.
It's a lot clearer, comprehensive, and more directly worded, than the stuff ML has been putting out.
A good read.
- Paul
It's a lot clearer, comprehensive, and more directly worded, than the stuff ML has been putting out.
A good read.
- Paul
TOareaFan
Superstar
sure, but it is limited to work being done inside Toronto, no? So it is not a full ReR update as much as a "the thing we will call SmarTrack" update
TOareaFan
Superstar
Attachments
mdrejhon
Senior Member
I already posted the correct, fixed link. See above.
ssiguy2
Senior Member
Am I the only one who finds it VERY odd that all the RER lines are to begin operations in 2025? We are talking over 200 km {what exactly is the total kms of RER anyway?} of electrified line with new vehicles GO/TTC have no experience in. Usually it takes many months to train the staff on the new vehicles, route, and safety runs on the route so expecting them to do all this at the same time for opening of the same year with 200km seems really weird. Even the Chinese would have a hard time opening 200km of new near-subway level service in one year. All of this is to say nothing of all the new vehicles arriving within a year of each other.
crs1026
Superstar
It's a bit of 'pick your poison'. The whole RER program is a huge project and probably overwhelms ML's internal project management capability. Ontario's answer to that is to put most of its construction management eggs within the Infrastructure Ontario organization, meaning IO and not ML is driving these projects once they are approved and funded.
That's not bad, but IO does not have much operational expertise with railways or railway construction and operation. The AFP process adds time to the front end to work out the design-finance-build (and now operate) details. The academic literature suggests that not doing enough front end planning is a prime reason why many megaprojects fail. So again, it may well be prudent to take the time and get all this worked out generically. Personally, I am still a bit dubious, because in my career experience the more layers and turf lines get inserted between planners and end operators, the worse things work out. One wonders how ML will be held accountable for getting the spec right (and not revising it once construction begins - change orders are the toxic part of project execution and cost control).
So yeah, at the end of the day I wish they would pick one line and expedite it to learn from it. UPE is the obvious small scale low hanging fruit.... but even electrifying and reequipping UPE requires a huge change to signalling and related infrastructure in the Union-Bathurst zone, and that takes time. I suppose the Stouffville and Barrie upgrades are the 'baby steps' initiatives in terms of physical plant. Fleet is a big unknown, they could really mess this up if the timing forces them into one big order (shades of the Bombardier Flexity mess!)
I doubt it will actually all happen at once, and if the bureaucracy could talk freely they would likely admit this. But the pols want to lay out a good news story (with appropriate wiggle room), so 2025 is just a safe, impossible to refute, make everybody happy with no winners or losers kind of party line. At least things are gaining momentum.
- Paul