[DonValleyRainbow]

I can certainly buy the idea of a small layover yard for UPX, and perhaps an inspection station with wires where things can be troubleshooted or inspected. Heavier maintenance gets done with pants down in any event, so mixed diesel-electric shops are not inconceivable. Hauling dead UPX cars down to Willowbrook occasionally for maintenance is more appealing than those higher overheads.

Repeating some points:

• Willowbrook will likely not be retrofitted for electrified fleet maintenance; storage only.
• The Whitby facility will indeed handle the most major repair/maintenance work.
• I truly think people are undervaluing the deadhead conundrum. It wouldn't be an issue today, but at RER service levels, the space on the corridor will be very precious. Conflicts are better to be minimized so as to not impact revenue service, or delay deadhead movements to the point it risks delaying the actual maintenance work or placing a consist back in revenue service.

 

[crs1026]

I truly think people are undervaluing the deadhead conundrum. It wouldn't be an issue today, but at RER service levels, the space on the corridor will be very precious. Conflicts are better to be minimized so as to not impact revenue service, or delay deadhead movements to the point it risks delaying the actual maintenance work or placing a consist back in revenue service.

I think we are agreeing on that. Deadhead trips need to be minimised, especially during the heavier traffic periods.

I'm not so sure that the Kitchener line will be less precious in that respect. Certainly, it's less distance from Union (where most maintenance moves will have to pass through, and where consists will most frequently be changed out for maintenance) to Resources than Whitby, but it's even less distance to Willowbrook.

Already, GO shuffles consists at night and on weekends between outlying layover yards and Willowbrook to address failures on the road and maintenance schedules. One question is how often does GO need to redirect a consist to the shops for maintenance after the morning peak or in the middle of the day. And how will GO's layover needs change with RER. With more doubletracking, equipment needs may actually decrease since the number of consists per route is capped at about 8-10, thanks to the ability to turn back trains at peak.

All I know is, a business that has two large full time shops and a smaller remote shop will ask whether the third can be absorbed into the main shops. If there is capacity, there will be strong arguments for doing so, and likely cost savings. The cost of added mileage to Whitby vs the avoidable capital and operating cost of a relief facility would require a spreadsheet comparison, we won't arrive at that answer with this discussion.

- Paul

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

iirc the Sharyos are convertible to EMU's do we expect that to happen? Definetly interesting to consider whether or not the system will still consist mainly as bilevels as I think everyone expects and all the Metrolinx Media suggests, the use of Single Levels would definetly have benefits if we want to shrink frequencies down to every few minutes though.

Whatever they choose, the limiting factor is going to be what the spur to/from Pearson can handle (weight, turn radii, dynamic envelope, etc.).

 

[smallspy]

It's a bit like BT or KW Transit with dedicated express buses of a different model that are kept separate (mostly) from the local bus fleet operationally. Nobody builds separate garages - an oil change is an oil change, a hoist is a hoist. Same with TTC having to sort out what gets done at Hillcrest vs Leslie.

- Paul

Well, yes and no. And your reference of what gets done at Hillcrest versus Leslie is proof of that, where two separate facilities is needed. One for one set of rolling stock where the equipment is located under the floor, and the other where the equipment is located in the roof.

Heck, even at Hillcrest there are two separate and independent facilities that work on two different fleets of equipment. All heavy servicing for the buses are done at the Duncan Shops, and the streetcars maintained at the Harvey Shops. Each is specialized for the work that needs to be done on each.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

Maybe a bit tangential but how do we expect the UPE to handle increasing loads? The train is already quite busy no? And with Eglinton etc coming on line isn't it going to be tight on capacity?

Eglinton would reduce UPX ridership; it's a low-cost, higher-order transit connection. But the key thing to relieving any pressure on UPX ridership is to stop pricing it as low as the GO. Current ridership is propped up by commuters to GO stations, rather than airport travellers, which boils my blood.

Anyway, I think we're straying into service-thread stuff.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

Meh, any solution will probably require expansion -> construction imo. I'm not sure how big of an impact Eglinton will have though, I feel like trips to the airport on the ECLRT will take a lot longer due to the numerous stops and lack of GS?

Really depends on whose riding it. Some people value their money more than their time.

 

[robmausser]

Maybe a bit tangential but how do we expect the UPE to handle increasing loads? The train is already quite busy no? And with Eglinton etc coming on line isn't it going to be tight on capacity?

I think GO RER will reduce the loads on the UPX.

A lot of people are taking it essentially as a commuter train to Bloor and Weston GO.

GO RER will replace those commuters.

 

[TOareaFan]

Eglinton would reduce UPX ridership; it's a low-cost, higher-order transit connection. But the key thing to relieving any pressure on UPX ridership is to stop pricing it as low as the GO. Current ridership is propped up by commuters to GO stations, rather than airport travellers, which boils my blood.

Anyway, I think we're straying into service-thread stuff.

The phase of Eglinton currently under construction would, I think, increase loads on UPX as it provides another connection point to the service. Once it is extended to Renforth you may be right in that it could take some people off of UPX.

 

[TOareaFan]

I think GO RER will reduce the loads on the UPX.

A lot of people are taking it essentially as a commuter train to Bloor and Weston GO.

GO RER will replace those commuters.

This is what I think too based on observations.....virtually no one gets on or off Kitchener GO trains at Weston anymore.....but there are always people waiting at the UPX platform when GO trains go through......but every time they release ridership numbers they seem to go out of their way to point out that the majority of riders are still using it to go to/from Pearson.

Then I wonder...why would someone at Weston switch back to the 15 minute ReR trains (if we ever get there) which will be more crowded (one would assume) than the UPX trains? If both offer 15 minute frequencies and the price is the same...why would they switch back to the "GO" from the UPX?

 

[Allandale25]

The phase of Eglinton currently under construction would, I think, increase loads on UPX as it provides another connection point to the service. Once it is extended to Renforth you may be right in that it could take some people off of UPX.

Has it been confirmed that UPX will add at stop at Eglinton? Hadn't seen that.

 

[TOareaFan]

Has it been confirmed that UPX will add at stop at Eglinton? Hadn't seen that.

I think it was always planned that way....and recent media suggest they are still telling the local community it is going to be

https://www.insidetoronto.com/news-...mmunity-sees-bright-future-for-neighbourhood/

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

Has it been confirmed that UPX will add at stop at Eglinton? Hadn't seen that.

So people can go through the effort of transferring, paying a few bucks extra to save a few minutes? That would be ridiculous. It will be a great GO stop, but UPX does not make sense from a layman's cost-benefit, and it certainly doesn't make sense for the 2 minutes of travel time it would add overall.

 

[TOareaFan]

So people can go through the effort of transferring, paying a few bucks extra to save a few minutes? That would be ridiculous. It will be a great GO stop, but UPX does not make sense from a layman's cost-benefit, and it certainly doesn't make sense for the 2 minutes of travel time it would add overall.

I believe the original plan was to have UPX stop/connect at all the RT routes it meets on way to airport.......so the plan was Union/Bloor/Mt Dennis/Airport.......the stop at Weston is/was/will be the extra stop.

As for a cost benefit analysis for customers....my calculator keeps telling me I am missing a variable when I try to calculate one (the price from/to Mt. Dennis is not readily available is it?).

 

[torontocolin]

So people can go through the effort of transferring, paying a few bucks extra to save a few minutes?

The ECLRT will likely open years before its extension to the airport, if said extension is even ever built. And it will definitely open years before electrification/RER is in place on the Kitchener line. For years, having the UPX trains stop there will provide a rapid connection between local residents/ECLRT commuters and both Union station and the airport.

In 2025, if there are 15 minute electrified GO trains running through that station and the ECLRT reaches Pearson, maybe it makes sense to stop having the UPX trains stop there. But maybe not. And in the meantime, it provides a useful link at the cost of a high platform being built as a part of a station which was already under construction anyway.

 

[raptor]

Engineering Services for Niagara Expansion Stations &Layover