[tsm1072]

I’m with ML on this one.

They are replacing the crossbeams, which means they have enabled a second span when it’s needed. That’s sound futureproofing.

But why procure and install spans that their analysis says they won’t need for years yet.

We know they are not doubletracking the line at this time. The service plan doesn’t require that.

We are a long ways (and a lot of money) from headways that demand full double tracking.

I will be a whole lot happier when they get sidings and other things done, so that there is useful counterflow service. There’s too much delay just to get that done. We don’t need scope creep - first things first.

- Paul

It also looks like double-tracking through Guelph east of the river will involve quite a few bridge upgrades/replacements. I agree that there is no point in spending the money to complete the double-tracking until the service pattern requires it, at least they are doing the prep-work now to make it easier to complete in the future.

 

[drum118]

I’m with ML on this one.

They are replacing the crossbeams, which means they have enabled a second span when it’s needed. That’s sound futureproofing.

But why procure and install spans that their analysis says they won’t need for years yet.

We know they are not doubletracking the line at this time. The service plan doesn’t require that.

We are a long ways (and a lot of money) from headways that demand full double tracking.

I will be a whole lot happier when they get sidings and other things done, so that there is useful counterflow service. There’s too much delay just to get that done. We don’t need scope creep - first things first.

- Paul

Until they get thing done to the east of this bridge, useless to have a 2nd bridge at this time other than erection cost and the cost of the bridge. Also, less disruption to do it once than twice. To put in the 2nd bridge at a later date is not hard to do other than more road and sidewalk closure.

What could happen is that a double track bridge will replace the current one with the 2nd track added down the road.

What is money to ML these days to do things?

Once work starts on the south platform this years, things will look a lot better in 2022.

To double track to the west means buying property.

 

[reaperexpress]

To double track to the west means buying property.

Where would they need to buy property? There was already a second track between Guelph Station and the yard as recently as 2011.

Looking west from Dublin Street in 2009:

the Canadian Rail Atlas still shows the second track in place. The rails would need to be realigned through the yard to bring them up to mainline standards, but GO already owns that property so that's not an issue.

 

[crs1026]

^The actual impediment to double tracking through Guelph is the trio of single track overpasses at crossings east of the big bridge and the pair of single track bridges west of town. There’s plenty of room for a long passing track through Guelph proper.
All of those single track bridges are of modern concrete construction and all will have to be twinned - they are not ‘expandable’ as the river bridge is. In aggregate, that is expensive, and really can’t be tackled incrementally.
It makes no sense to add track over the river bridge when it can’t go any further east or west. One day, there will be a major expansion project, but the current project is quite reasonable for not tackling all that.
Believe it or not, there is a limit to how much ML can spend at any one time.

- Paul

 

[crs1026]

PS: If you want to imagine how the Guelph Sub is likely to be enlarged, have a look at how CN transformed its Halton Sub (former Milton Sub) from branch line to main line 60 years ago. They added sections of double track where it was cheapest to do so, but left the more expensive bits (particularly bridges) as single track. The result is a chain of passing tracks with 3-5 mile segments of single track connecting them. That layout has served CN admirably, and while there have been rumours of full doubletracking being in the works at various points, the further capital investment has never been seen to be worth it.
I would expect that GO would use a similar strategy. The impetus for total double track will only come if there is a push to higher speed, very frequent, mixed express-local service such as a HFR or HSR. Even at 30 minute 2-way headways, vanilla RER can live with segments of single track over the pinch points.

- Paul

 

[drum118]

Where would they need to buy property? There was already a second track between Guelph Station and the yard as recently as 2011.

Looking west from Dublin Street in 2009:
View attachment 320833

the Canadian Rail Atlas still shows the second track in place. The rails would need to be realigned through the yard to bring them up to mainline standards, but GO already owns that property so that's not an issue.
View attachment 320834

This is what it looked like last year and the ROW will support 2 tracks. There been call to close streets off and one was done last year. They cut in a switch with new signals east of the close street last year, but the 2nd track wasn't install to the station the last time I saw it this year.

Beyond the junction, no idea what the tracks look like.

 

[tsm1072]

This is what it looked like last year and the ROW will support 2 tracks. There been call to close streets off and one was done last year. They cut in a switch with new signals east of the close street last year, but the 2nd track wasn't install to the station the last time I saw it this year.

Is there a plan to add a grade-separated pedestrian crossing? I think closing the residential street crossings is a smart move, but they should be adding a safe crossing for pedestrians as to not totally split the neighbourhood.

 

[reaperexpress]

^The actual impediment to double tracking through Guelph is the trio of single track overpasses at crossings east of the big bridge and the pair of single track bridges west of town. There’s plenty of room for a long passing track through Guelph proper.
All of those single track bridges are of modern concrete construction and all will have to be twinned - they are not ‘expandable’ as the river bridge is. In aggregate, that is expensive, and really can’t be tackled incrementally.
It makes no sense to add track over the river bridge when it can’t go any further east or west. One day, there will be a major expansion project, but the current project is quite reasonable for not tackling all that.
Believe it or not, there is a limit to how much ML can spend at any one time.

- Paul

PS: If you want to imagine how the Guelph Sub is likely to be enlarged, have a look at how CN transformed its Halton Sub (former Milton Sub) from branch line to main line 60 years ago. They added sections of double track where it was cheapest to do so, but left the more expensive bits (particularly bridges) as single track. The result is a chain of passing tracks with 3-5 mile segments of single track connecting them. That layout has served CN admirably, and while there have been rumours of full doubletracking being in the works at various points, the further capital investment has never been seen to be worth it.
I would expect that GO would use a similar strategy. The impetus for total double track will only come if there is a push to higher speed, very frequent, mixed express-local service such as a HFR or HSR. Even at 30 minute 2-way headways, vanilla RER can live with segments of single track over the pinch points.

- Paul

Thanks for that tipoff, I hadn't realized how much of the Halton Sub is actually single-tracked.

Here's the status of double-tracking along CN's mainline around the city.
Green=double track, Yellow Diamond = single-tracked bridge that lacks abutments for a second track.

Here are the bridges outside of Guelph which are single tracked and not future-proofed. The 2.6 km pink line is the stretch which I'm guessing will be double-tracked as part of the expansion project.

 

[tmlittle]

Is there a plan to add a grade-separated pedestrian crossing? I think closing the residential street crossings is a smart move, but they should be adding a safe crossing for pedestrians as to not totally split the neighbourhood.

I think this would go a long way to splitting up and defusing opposition. These residential areas really shouldn't have high traffic, and level crossings on a mainline are not great for present or future. It would leave the only opposition as people who specifically want a vehicular crossing, which is a much weaker position to advocate for.

 

[drum118]

A very late Surprise Notice Received at 8 pm​

Port Credit GO – Walkway between pedestrian tunnels in north parking lot closing Friday, May 21

​

Port Credit GO passengers: Starting Friday, May 21, the walkway connecting the two pedestrian tunnels in the north parking lot will close until September, 2021 for construction. The west tunnel via the pedestrian bridge will only be accessible from Sandham Road. The east tunnel will remain accessible via the pedestrian path around the construction area from the north parking lot. Please give yourself extra time to get to the station and train platform during construction. Please follow posted signage and be careful around construction equipment and fenced off areas until this work is complete. For more information on changes at your station, please visit the Port Credit GO construction page. For more information on the Hurontario LRT project, please visit the Metrolinx project page. At GO Transit, your health and safety are our top priority. Find out how we’re responding to COVID-19 by clicking here.​

 

[StealthyArrow]

Unionville GO Station today.

 

[StealthyArrow]

Milliken GO today.

 

[yyzhyd]

wow the unionville and Milliken station and surrounding areas have changed so much since I was last there.

 

[SaugeenJunction]

Today, Kerr Street Grade Separation:

 

[generalcanada]

So apperently the date the ONCORR Contract will be awarded is March 2022.

2 other interesting details is that
- commitment to keep train traffic at current levels on the barrie corridor until electrification is fully complete (apperently 2025 for the barrie corridor)
- barrie corridor electrification completion in 2025