[crs1026]

I wonder if a factor in that is how many of the lines in Vancouver and its region are key lines for CP/CN. The GTHA has certainly benefited from a the lines GO was able to buy and even before that, the geographical flexible to move freight out of the downtown...

cc @crs1026

Vancouver is in a different situation altogether. Its rail lines are constrained by geography. For the most part, the rail lines don’t go where the population is or needs to go to, nor where urban growth is happening or has potential for growth..

Toronto, on the other hand, had relatively few geographical constrains so it achieved a close to perfect set of rail corridors radiating from a central point that was a good spot for a city centre.

The other thing to appreciate is that Toronto’s rail lines became redundant (and thus could be repurposed to transit) several decades ago. Their old role of supplying industry in the city ended as those industries disappeared or moved to the suburbs. (It’s an interesting read to go back through the Toronto Star and Globe archives for the late 50s and early 60s when the Halton/York bypass and the new rail yards in Maple and Agincourt were being planned…. even that far back, it was very obvious to the railways that they no longer needed all that trackage). So it was easier for the Province to scoop them up for commuter rail.

In contrast, Vancouver’s rail lines remain vital for their original purpose… which was and is to feed the port facilities. They are not redundant. In fact, even if the lines went to the right places, commuter rail is quite impractical because the terminal freight activities don’t leave much “track and time” for anything else.

As for London, until they get it in their heads that the automobile is not the solution, London is going nowhere. It is way too soon to be imagining whether London’s rail corridors might support higher order transit. And again, those corridors retain their primacy as freight corridors, so can’t be appropriated without respecting that role.

I disagree with @urban Sky’s view that the commuter and passenger potential for London is unproven…. there is more than enough data on both VIA ridership and on trips made on other modes. It is already a commuter community for both the GTA and KW. It’s so odd that we are trying to measure this corridor‘s potential with a test train rather than with the usual reams of data and charts and tables - and investment estimates and cost/benefit statistics - that appear before every other route’s development. I‘m not a fan of over-studying things, but this single GO train is the transportation equivalent of rejecting science and swallowing a cup of bleach instead..

- Paul

 

[felix123]

Just imagine what we would have if the entire GEXR/CN section from London to Brampton was Class 6 rail.

If the Guelph section is now class 6, what factor is limiting operating speed to 72km/h?

 

[SaugeenJunction]

If the Guelph section is now class 6, what factor is limiting operating speed to 72km/h?

In this section, it’s probably because the tracks run down the centre of a road like an LRT (it’s fenced however). Probably just an arbitrary limit in case if a derailment.

 

[Allandale25]

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[Krypto98]

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I might make a bold prediction that weekend service might come at the same time as Mount Dennis opening.

 

[Bordercollie]

The really sad thing about this whole London GO fiasco, is that it gives QP the excuse not to provide a real GO service to the City because Londoners won't use it.

This is 100% the result of creating a GO system on the assumption that London itself has no commuters and people in London only want to get to Toronto. NOBODY in London commutes to Toronto. They may go one or twice a week but VIA would get them there is nearly half the time. This is what happens when you put a Torontonian in charge of transit for London.

London's situation for a local commuter GO service is ideal. It has rail lines radiating out of the city in every direction. To the north St.Mary's with 8k and Stratford with 34k. To the west Strathroy with 16k and Komoka/Kilworth with 3. To the east, Dorchester with 5k, Ingersol with 14k, and Woodstock with 46. To the south there is nearby St.Thomas with 43k. All this without London having any form of urban expressway that comes even remotely close to the downtown and London in general having inadequate roads and horrific. traffic. As an example, if you go to Google maps you will see that from Ingersol to downtown is 36 minutes driving and from Strathroy 38 minutes but with even slow VIA it's only 21 minutes. This doesn't make commuter rail time competitive but rather a HUGE time advantage.

The VIA station is right downtown an a short block from the BRT Downtown Loop easily connecting the big 3 employers in London........ huge Western, Fanshawe {the 6th largest college in the country} and SWO's largest hospital, the London Health Sciences Centre.

GO commuter would be very successful in London which is one of the fastest growing Metros in the country.............shame they didn't bother to ask Londoners what THEY wanted.

If you are going to commute from London to Toronto you would take the southern route.

This is for people travelling between London and Kitchener and back and in-between. This has been discussed over and over again.

 

[reaperexpress]

I was curious as to how the scheduled travel time has changed over time between London and Kitchener, so I took a sampling from @Urban Sky 's incredible VIA Rail Timetable archive.

In 1976, there were 4 trains per day, and the travel time was 1h13 (77 km/h average)
In 2021, there are 2 trains per day, and the travel time is 2h10 (43 km/h average)

Travel time (basically the inverse of the above chart)

Here is the raw data I entered: (link to spreadsheet)

 

[drum118]

First update I’ve seen on Confederation GO in a year and a half so that’s good, I guess.

I imagine Metrolinx is trying to get Caledonia GO built by smart centres next door.

If Smart Centre is smart, it will tell ML thanks but no thanks for building the station on their dime regardless the redevelopment of the plaza. ML miss the boat 12 years ago by not planning for the future or when the LRT was to be build by not having a knockout wall to allow direct connection between the LRT and GO Station. Would been easy to issue a change order for the connection during the design of the LRT station.

Again, why build the Confederation Station when ridership is non existing to COVID 19 regardless it will take 2 years to build?? Until ridership start to return, ML will push the station as well others down the road.

 

[Bordercollie]

If Smart Centre is smart, it will tell ML thanks but no thanks for building the station on their dime regardless the redevelopment of the plaza. ML miss the boat 12 years ago by not planning for the future or when the LRT was to be build by not having a knockout wall to allow direct connection between the LRT and GO Station. Would been easy to issue a change order for the connection during the design of the LRT station.

Again, why build the Confederation Station when ridership is non existing to COVID 19 regardless it will take 2 years to build?? Until ridership start to return, ML will push the station as well others down the road.

Because eventually things will get back to normal and if you don't start now it will be too late.

 

[drum118]

Because eventually things will get back to normal and if you don't start now it will be too late.

You are talking ML that is slow doing things or the wrong way.

If ML had built the station as plan, it would be a white elephants at this time and wasting funds to keep the lights on as well funds to CN for track maintenance.

 

[Urban Sky]

I was curious as to how the scheduled travel time has changed over time between London and Kitchener, so I took a sampling from @Urban Sky 's incredible VIA Rail Timetable archive.

In 1976, there were 4 trains per day, and the travel time was 1h13 (77 km/h average)
In 2021, there are 2 trains per day, and the travel time is 2h10 (43 km/h average)

View attachment 368247

Travel time (basically the inverse of the above chart)
View attachment 368248


Here is the raw data I entered: (link to spreadsheet)
View attachment 368249

Thanks for the Koodos and happy to see that my archive was useful to you, but I can really feel the pain of compiling all the data for such a relatively simple post!

I will gladly share my timetable database spreadsheet with you, with which you will be able to aggregate and extract timetable data in a few seconds' time into handy graphs and tables like the following:

Spoiler

Have a great weekend and keep up the excellent work!

 

[robmausser]

In this section, it’s probably because the tracks run down the centre of a road like an LRT (it’s fenced however). Probably just an arbitrary limit in case if a derailment.

Yes exactly this.

If youve been through the area by train im actually surprised they even managed to raise it to 72kmh

 

[SaugeenJunction]

Yes exactly this.

If youve been through the area by train im actually surprised they even managed to raise it to 72kmh

I’m curious if freights are limited to 72 km/h or have a lower limit. The GO trains are either accelerating out of or slowing down for Guelph Station. Seeing a CN freight pound this section at track speed would be quite a sight.

 

[robmausser]

I’m curious if freights are limited to 72 km/h or have a lower limit. The GO trains are either accelerating out of or slowing down for Guelph Station. Seeing a CN freight pound this section at track speed would be quite a sight.

Freights always have a slower speed for a set area than passenger rail. Not just on track class but things like crossings etc.

 

[drum118]

Dec 11
Mary Fix Creek