tsm1072
Active Member
Is it possible that they will use dual-mode locomotives for the partially electrified routes (Kitchener and Lakeshore West) or will they have enough existing diesel locomotives that it isn't worth it?
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- Thread starter innsertnamehere
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reaperexpress
Senior Member
The suitability of loco-hauled BiLevel trains is heavily affected by the stop spacing, since they have fewer doors per passenger than single-level local trains.
So I decided to measure the stop spacings of the planned 15-minute local services, including the planned stations.
Of the 47 station-to-station distances, 26 are under 5 km:
The lines with the shortest average spacings are the Kitchener and Stouffville lines, which are likely going to be interlined with each other. This suggests that if DB were to purchase single-level EMUs, they would probably provide the most benefit on the Bramalea-Unionville local service.
So I decided to measure the stop spacings of the planned 15-minute local services, including the planned stations.
Of the 47 station-to-station distances, 26 are under 5 km:
The lines with the shortest average spacings are the Kitchener and Stouffville lines, which are likely going to be interlined with each other. This suggests that if DB were to purchase single-level EMUs, they would probably provide the most benefit on the Bramalea-Unionville local service.
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ssiguy2
Senior Member
My only concern with using all the DD until they get more EMUs is that it will be difficult to differentiate the services. One of the many benefits of using EMUs for RER sections is that it would be simple for the average passenger to know what service level the next train would provide.............single level for RER and DD for commuter. This way the public easily knows if the train coming in will actually stop at the station you want to get off at. It's much like when getting off at Kipling subway station you know what type of bus to take because TTC is red, GO is green, and Miss is yellow.
I think the least they should do is have a slightly different log so the commuter trains are GO and local trains are clearly labelled on every coach as GO RER.
I think the least they should do is have a slightly different log so the commuter trains are GO and local trains are clearly labelled on every coach as GO RER.
ARG1
Senior Member
I mean maybe, but that's kinda line specific. If we just look at the proposed service patterns that were present in 2018 Business Case, we had 3 lines that were fully electrified, and thus would've had EMUs run on both the frequent and infrequent sections - with Elec Locos only being used during rush hours. At the end of the day they were no different from say the LSW express services. Even today if we account for the LSE getting the bowmanville extension, that's still 2 lines that wouldn't be differentiable at all in the long term. Now maybe you can argue that 3 lines > 0 lines for visual clarity, but this is only a really minor benefit and still really raises the question of "what's the real difference between RER and Commuter" other than whether or not its electrified.
At the end of the day it doesn't really matter, GO lines are GO lines. As far as GO concerned all services are part of the "Regional Rail" network, with no real differentiation between Regional and Commuter rail unless you count Richmond Hill and Milton Lines as "Commuter Lines". Its all technicalities and nitpicking.
afransen
Senior Member
I think you address that with some "next train" screens.
M II A II R II K
Senior Member
Perhaps Diesel carriages can be inserted into electrified trainsets where they just go along for the ride.
Hairball
Active Member
GO already has these screens at most stations, as long as it's clear it should be sufficient.
I found this concept difficult until going to some other places, since TTC does not run different lines on the same track like some places. I guess the only relevant example here would be knowing the destination of the train on the University side, since not all the trains travel the whole way.
superelevation
Active Member
Not that ridiculous - Zurich does it (underground yes)
superelevation
Active Member
Not tight, perhaps by the time we need emus we will also feel like adding a bunch more infill - which then won't have a huge time penalty
EnviroTO
Senior Member
So in Zurich an electric locomotive pulls a DMU with the diesel engines turned off? Is that just for a small part of the route that can only handle electric due to tunnel air circulation?
superelevation
Active Member
They run frequent electric loco pulled trains into their tight airport tunnel
reaperexpress
Senior Member
Switzerland doesn't have any DMUs, their railway network is 100% electrified.
Nederlandse Spoorwegen also doesn't have any diesel trains (though there are some other companies which operate diesel trains on some rural lines in the Netherlands). Their entire fleet is EMUs, except for some Bombardier Traxx electric locomotives and coaches which will be replaced by Alstom Corradia EMUs starting later this year, and the DB or ÖBB international trains (e.g. to Berlin, Zurich, Vienna) which are hauled by Siemens Vectron locomotives within the Netherlands.
Complete listing of active NS revenue fleet:
Sprinter (Local) Trains
Bombardier SLT
Image: Jan Derk Remmers via Wikimedia Commons
Stadler FLIRT
Image: Rob Dammers via Wikimedia Commons
CAF SNG
Image: Rob Dammers via Wikimedia Commons
Intercity Trains
Talbot/NedTrain Nieuwe Intercity Dubbeldekker
Image: Alfenaar via Wikimedia Commons
Bombardier VIRM
Image: Rob Dammers via Wikimedia Commons
Talbot ICM
Image: TreinBas via Wikimedia Commons
Intercity Express Trains
Siemens Velaro ICE-3M
Image: Sebastian Terfloth via Wikimedia Commons
Bombardier Traxx + Intercity coaches (to be retired starting this year)
Image: Rob Dammers via Wikimedia Commons
Alstom Corradia Stream (entering service this year)
Image: Falk2 via Wikimedia Commons
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EnviroTO
Senior Member
OK, so in Zurich they are just electric locomotive trains which is common. UP Express is DMUs so simply sticking an electric locomotive on those trains would mean all sorts of extra weight and rolling resistance that is completely inefficient. That is what I am calling out as ridiculous... like having a Tesla Semis tow a diesel busses that are put in neutral as a means to electrify the TTC bus fleet.
Deadpool X
Senior Member
This one is an angry looking train.
dowlingm
Senior Member
I haven’t either but a lot of the ZF installs I have heard of were retrofits of engines with older engine models where the greatest bang for buck was expected, for example, Porterbrook had a pilot to install ZF on class 158 (NTA855 Cummins)
Automatic transmission
South West Trains is piloting a fuel saving measure for its Class 158 Sprinters when operating at low speeds. RTM talked to Christian Roth, fleet director for the South West Trains – Network Rail Al
www.railtechnologymagazine.com
Irish Rail switched to ZF mechanical from Voith on some of their 100mph DMU trainsets (RollsRoyce MTU engines)
Irish Rail DMU to be fitted with new transmissions
The latest news and analysis of the global railway industry from the world's leading international publication.
www.railjournal.com
Voith have a product called DIWARail which seems to be their response to this market challenge