[cplchanb]

GO Sub is 85.


There are now 3 passenger equipment speeds on portions of the CN network.

Passenger (P) is the "standard" passenger speed allowed. This is to be followed by HEP, HEP2, Amtrak, etc. until it exceeds the equipment's top speed.
LRC is an enhanced passenger speed for specific types of equipment.
Passenger Plus (P+) is a new-ish speed limit for GO's equipment on their own lines.


I love anecdotal stories like this.

Mainly because they show just how wrong many of these views that "things were much better back in the day!". And doesn't give any of the details - like the fact that trains back then didn't stop as often. Or that the frequency of service in many cases is actually better today.

Rose-coloured glasses are a funny thing. And so is memory - collective or otherwise.

Dan

I would lament the fact that they cared more about timeliness back then if grandpa's story checks out. These days the trains are late by 15-20min we shrug our shoulders. Anywhere else in Europe, especially Japan that would be unacceptable

 

[Bordercollie]

GO Sub is 85.


There are now 3 passenger equipment speeds on portions of the CN network.

Passenger (P) is the "standard" passenger speed allowed. This is to be followed by HEP, HEP2, Amtrak, etc. until it exceeds the equipment's top speed.
LRC is an enhanced passenger speed for specific types of equipment.
Passenger Plus (P+) is a new-ish speed limit for GO's equipment on their own lines.


I love anecdotal stories like this.

Mainly because they show just how wrong many of these views that "things were much better back in the day!". And doesn't give any of the details - like the fact that trains back then didn't stop as often. Or that the frequency of service in many cases is actually better today.

Rose-coloured glasses are a funny thing. And so is memory - collective or otherwise.

Dan

What's the passenger+ speed?

 

[reaperexpress]

What's the passenger+ speed?

There is no P+ speed for the GO sub. There's just one speed limit which makes sense since it was only ever intended to be used by GO trains.

 

[Bordercollie]

There is no P+ speed. There's just one speed limit which makes sense since it was only ever intended to be used by GO trains.

So what is that speed?

 

[reaperexpress]

So what is that speed?

I'm confused... Are you asking what the speed limit is on the GO sub? Or is has there been some other misunderstanding somewhere?

 

[Bordercollie]

I'm confused... Are you asking what the speed limit is on the GO sub? Or is has there been some other misunderstanding somewhere?

I'm asking if the GO speed is different than other passenger trains

 

[reaperexpress]

I'm asking if the GO speed is different than other passenger trains

If you've read the posts on this page and still have this question then I assume you've misunderstood something somewhere.

We are talking about different classes of speed limit, which have specific train types associated with them. Each given segment of track has one or more speed limits. Commonly there will be two: "passenger" and "freight". But on many CN mainlines such as the Kingston Subdivision (Toronto-Montreal) this has been expanded out to many subclasses, with various different sets of speed limits for different types of freight or passenger trains.

Focusing on passenger trains, one common setup is to have 3 classes: "Passenger (P)" is available to any passenger equipment. "P+" is a higher (or identical) limit which applies to much of our modern passenger equipment such as LRC coaches and GO trains. Finally at the top, there's the "LRC" class, which applies to Renaissance & Venture coaches, and P42 & Charger locomotives. If a train is composed of different equipment with different speed ratings, the lowest category applies. For example, P42 locomotives qualify for "LRC", but LRC coaches only qualify for "P+". So the a train with a P42 locomotive and LRC coaches may only travel up to the P+ speed.

But it is equally possible to have a different division of speed limits. For example, the Weston sub (Toronto-Brampton) just has the categories "UP", "GO", "VIA" where UP is the highest and VIA is the lowest. So on the Weston sub, a Siemens trainset would have a lower speed limit than a GO train, while on the Kingston sub, it would have a higher speed limit than a GO train.

The exact value for each of these speed limits (e.g. P, P+, LRC) varies from one track segment to the next. On many portions of the Corridor, the track speeds are 100 mph LRC / 95 mph P+ / 95 mph P. But there are also segments with 100 LRC / 100 P+ / 95 P. Sometimes on curves there can be a very large discrepancy, like at Scarborough Golf Club Road the limits are 85 LRC / 75 P+ / 70 P. Meanwhile there are lines such as the GO sub (Pickering-Oshawa) or Grimsby sub (Hamilton-Niagara) which only have one class of passenger speed limit, applying to all passenger trains.

 

[Krypto98]

GO Sub is 85.

I'm was somewhat unfamiliar since I don't operate on that sub and it's beyond my normal operating area... the timetable on my EOM doesn't even give a freight speed

But it is equally possible to have a different division of speed limits. For example, the Weston sub (Toronto-Brampton) just has the categories "UP", "GO", "VIA" where UP is the highest and VIA is the lowest. So on the Weston sub, a Siemens trainset would have a lower speed limit than a GO train, while on the Kingston sub, it would have a higher speed limit than a GO train.

On the Weston it now shows as VIA GO and UP with UP and GO having a 80 zone speed and via 75

 

[reaperexpress]

I'm was somewhat unfamiliar since I don't operate on that sub and it's beyond my normal operating area... the timetable on my EOM doesn't even give a freight speed

There is no freight speed because freight trains are not permitted on the line.

On the Weston it now shows as VIA GO and UP with UP and GO having a 80 zone speed and via 75

Yeah I know, hence why I said that Via has a lower speed than GO.

 

[Willybru21]

Does anyone know what these two extra vents were for on the first Bi-Level series? Today they're covered up and I don't think they were used for that long, and I can't find any information on them.

 

[Willybru21]

The top one even appears in the souvenir ticket for the first Bi-Level train.

 

[Bordercollie]

The top one even appears in the souvenir ticket for the first Bi-Level train.View attachment 440350

It's likely for HVAC but newer units are smaller requiring less space.

 

[smallspy]

Focusing on passenger trains, one common setup is to have 3 classes: "Passenger (P)" is available to any passenger equipment. "P+" is a higher (or identical) limit which applies to much of our modern passenger equipment such as LRC coaches and GO trains. Finally at the top, there's the "LRC" class, which applies to Renaissance & Venture coaches, and P42 & Charger locomotives. If a train is composed of different equipment with different speed ratings, the lowest category applies. For example, P42 locomotives qualify for "LRC", but LRC coaches only qualify for "P+". So the a train with a P42 locomotive and LRC coaches may only travel up to the P+ speed.

I gotta pick some nits here.

P is the generic "Passenger" speed, and can apply to any line in Canada.

LRC is a special, higher limit that applies to very specific pieces of equipment. That equipment is the LRC coaches, Renaissance equipment and Siemens Venture cars, and any locomotives powering them. It's generally seen on the lines that are used by the Corridor trains.

P+ is the new, special one only for GO's own equipment. It is only used in the GTA, on GO's own lines, and no where else.

Dan

 

[Willybru21]

It's likely for HVAC but newer units are smaller requiring less space.

They must've used different ones for Series II and onwards since they are built without the extra vents.

 

[reaperexpress]

I gotta pick some nits here.

P is the generic "Passenger" speed, and can apply to any line in Canada.

LRC is a special, higher limit that applies to very specific pieces of equipment. That equipment is the LRC coaches, Renaissance equipment and Siemens Venture cars, and any locomotives powering them. It's generally seen on the lines that are used by the Corridor trains.

P+ is the new, special one only for GO's own equipment. It is only used in the GTA, on GO's own lines, and no where else.

According to my (outdated) CN timetable, the P+ category is not restricted to the GO service area, nor is it restricted to GO trains. It stretches all the way to Montreal along the Kingston subdivision. The passenger speed categories are defined as follows:

LRC:
- P42 Locomotives;
- Renaissance coaches. (timetable predates Siemens sets)

P+
- F40 locomotives
- LRC, HEP1, HEP2, Glen Fraser coaches
- all GO consists.

UP
- UPX DMUs or EMUs

Psgr (P)
everything else from VIA or GO (I assume Amtrak rolling stock counts as VIA?). Passenger equipment from other railroads would need to follow the Freight speed.