[Platform 27]

^For various weird historico-geographic factors, Barrie was already a commuter town long before GO began operations. Niagara, however, is not.

Anyway, I was there, too. Quick points:

• To clarify the Spec's shoddy reportage, those were all the station site options on display. The final report's station tally won't emerge until the next PIC.
• The canal issue has not yet been addressed, and the consultants on hand mentioned to me that they realize it could be a big problem. The boards showed only a proposal to run trains straight-through to Niagara, without any sign of a modal-shifting "hub" in St. Catharines as the mayor there has been pushing.
• Comparative running times of buses versus trains wasn't really compared at all, which is useful here because buses currently get to cut across the Skyway and save ~15 km. I'm beginning to think that based on running times and potential ridership, this could be a hard one to prove that a step up from the status quo is the way to go.

 

[Ervin]

Maybe they're just expecting a lot of population growth on the lake shore. It is the lake shore after all. Developers should look into placing condos there.

 

[TOareaFan]

A valid point. Should GO be expanding service before improving service on existing routes? And when does GO's type of service (i.e. Inter-Urban CBD focused trips) give way to VIA? To whit, is the Niagara service something that might be better served by VIA rather than GO?

I really feel that places like Niagara and Barrie are better served by VIA service leaving GO to serve the 416 and inner 905 cluster. Imagine Union station as the centre of a circle with a 100 km radius, this would be an area that is roughly a one hr drive away. I believe the areas with in that 100 km radius are best served by GO Transit.

I really wasn't fussed by the Barrie extension (ie. I did not scurry to my file to find the letter so that I could remind GO of their previous "no new service" promise).... in the housing/building boom of the late 80's early 90's had sold a lot of people on Barrie being within the commuter shed and we know that there are people (how many I do not know) in reasonably significant numbers who, daily, make the return trip to Toronto from Barrie. So that extension, seemed to be solving a real problem (commuters clogging the air as they clogged the 400).

I just don't get the sense that this is the case with the Niagara run.

 

[Second_in_pie]

First of all, expecting VIA in place of Go extensions just doesn't make sense, at least definitely not in this political climate. The feds barely care about transit, definitely don't care about the GGH, and have no interest in expanding VIA service. Go, on the other hand, is a service known to be good and reliable, under control of Ontario, and set to service the GGH, eventually with a true regional rail service. I wonder which one would be more popular and easier to apply...

I also think that Go should be providing this service just because of the service provided though. Go Rail is supposed to be regional travel through the GGH, while VIA is supposed to be and should be focusing on interregional travel. Especially as the GGH grows, trips to and within Niagara will be in higher demand, and so more of a metro system will be needed than VIA would make sense providing.

 

[RedRocket191]

I don't think it really matters what colour the trains are. Frequency, location of stations and price are far more important when it comes to train travel.

 

[Platform 27]

Maybe they're just expecting a lot of population growth on the lake shore. It is the lake shore after all. Developers should look into placing condos there.

The narrow strip of land between the lakeshore and the Niagara escarpment is Greenbelted up the wazoo (PDF link), and for good reason: there are comparatively few areas suitable for orchards in the entire province, and this development-pressured space is foremost among them.

The municipalities in that neck of the wood cried bloody murder when the Greenbelt was implemented because in their view it would be impossible for them to grow their assessment base without sprawling further out, and to date Niagara Region remains the province's ground zero when it comes to having far-too-many local councillors raging idiotically against the notion of built boundaries. Infill and densification is possible, but unlikely to really take off here because of the "country living" mindset, in which anything over two stories is met with heavy oppositon.

 

[kettal]

Every time I read about these plans for regular every day service to Niagara two thoughts come to mind.

1. Maybe we should have different threads for GO Improvements and GO Additions.....on the theory that not all additions are improvements (at least not in everyone's minds);

2. A letter I got from Gary McNeil years and years ago (over 10) telling me that an idea that I had was good (probably he didn't think it was but no harm in saying it) but that it represented a new service and that GO would not be adding new services until all of their existing services ran every day in both directions. Since then, obviously, we have seen the addition of Barrie and now we are seriously looking at 4 trains a day in each direction to a city that is 111 kms from the current terminus of a line....where the city we are going to be serving has a population of under 100k and in between we will be building stops (possibly multiple stops) in communities with populations of 21k?

The Niagara service as a seasonal, touristy type thing made a bit of sense to me....as a regular service it just seems to be a resource draw away from more compelling issues and one that probably should not be contemplated until the network/service-offerings are far more mature.

Probably not a popular opinion but it is the way I see it.

p.s. feel much the same way about Peterborough.

I agree with you. This has more to do with winning votes in Niagara than anything else.

But on the other hand, this stuff is easier to build than expanding tracks in urbanized areas for all-day service.

 

[Platform 27]

I agree with you. This has more to do with winning votes in Niagara than anything else.

But on the other hand, this stuff is easier to build than expanding tracks in urbanized areas for all-day service.

In this case it's not so much winning votes---Jim Bradley is one of the safest Liberals MPPs in the Leg---as having him in the office of the Minister of Transportation and apparently having few qualms about playing the role of a homer and nudging GO into an area that wasn't really flagged as much of a priority in the RTP. Now that he's no longer there, it's possible that the EA will wrap and then kind of sit on the shelf without a particular champion to hammer it into implementation.

 

[Ervin]

The narrow strip of land between the lakeshore and the Niagara escarpment is Greenbelted up the wazoo (PDF link), and for good reason: there are comparatively few areas suitable for orchards in the entire province, and this development-pressured space is foremost among them.

The municipalities in that neck of the wood cried bloody murder when the Greenbelt was implemented because in their view it would be impossible for them to grow their assessment base without sprawling further out, and to date Niagara Region remains the province's ground zero when it comes to having far-too-many local councillors raging idiotically against the notion of built boundaries. Infill and densification is possible, but unlikely to really take off here because of the "country living" mindset, in which anything over two stories is met with heavy oppositon.

Wow they are completely locked, and I was expectring the whole lakeshore in the area to be filled sooner or later. Nevermind...

 

[jwill]

Any word on using the LIUNA station in Hamilton? It would make a great station, but I fear they won't be willing to spend money to buy and renovate it, and we'll end up with a couple cheap platforms with some glass shelter.

 

[RedRocket191]

It is a federally designated structure, so I would assume that heritage restrictions will dictate what the platforms look like. The building itself is a (seemingly) profitable banquet hall, and I don't see the need to purchase the terminal building itself when there is a vacant lot right next door (unless the price is right, of course).

 

[Swarley]

The info boards (PDF) have been posted for the Niagara expansion. Nothing really new other than potential ridership numbers near the end - no surprise that Niagara Falls is very low, although Grimbsy being higher than St. Catharine's seems strange.

 

[Jonny5]

So GO has launched the redesign of their website.
They now proudly state they are "a division of Metrolinx".

My initial reaction is, please, get rid of the stupid stock photos of smiling people.
GO is not a division of Shopper's Drug Mart.

 

[TOareaFan]

GO is not a division of Shopper's Drug Mart.

If it were they would have 30 locations in every town and another 3 per town "opening soon"!

 

[Kiwi]

Notice how they shaded in the empty lot at James St North, that's what the City has been proposing for a new GO/VIA Station for years. It's right next door to LIUNA Station.