[turbanplanner]

This is totally off topic, but it blows my mind that in Canada it's normal for delivery drivers to just leave packages outside. It's a recipe for package theft. In the Netherlands if you're not home, they'll try to deliver to your neighbours, and if they're also not home, then they'll deliver the package to a designated spot in your neighbourhood such as a corner shop or post office. You'll get a note in your letterbox telling you where the package got delivered.

I don't imagine porch piracy is much of an issue for food delivery, since you're presumably already home when you order the food.

I find Europeans are super paranoid as someone who lived there.

 

[Richard White]

I don't imagine porch piracy is much of an issue for food delivery, since you're presumably already home when you order the food.

I once did Security at a Condominium where a person would order McDonalds before he went to bed early in the morning.

We used to have to toss his food because of the smell and fact it sat there for hours. We were concerned it may attract bugs.

His logic: If he ordered his food before he went to bed, it would be hanging on his door when he woke up. He thought he would have breakfast waiting for him when he woke up.

So yes.. missing food is an issue.

 

[innsertnamehere]

This is totally off topic, but it blows my mind that in Canada it's normal for delivery drivers to just leave packages outside. It's a recipe for package theft. In the Netherlands if you're not home, they'll try to deliver to your neighbours, and if they're also not home, then they'll deliver the package to a designated spot in your neighbourhood such as a corner shop or post office. You'll get a note in your letterbox telling you where the package got delivered.

I don't imagine porch piracy is much of an issue for food delivery, since you're presumably already home when you order the food.

Because porch piracy in most of Canada is actually a very very small issue. A little less so in a big city, but the vast majority of Canadian households are in areas where the risk is so low as to not be worth dealing with going to the post office.

The other problem is a lot of stuff isn’t delivered by Canada Post, so if fedex drops something off and you aren’t home, you have to go to their distribution centre halfway across town.

I once got a Purolator package when I lived downtown that I wasn’t home for and had to go to the portlands to pick it up. I didn’t own a car and there wasn’t really transit out there either - I had to have my buddy drive me. Giant pain in the a**

 

[afransen]

This is totally off topic, but it blows my mind that in Canada it's normal for delivery drivers to just leave packages outside. It's a recipe for package theft. In the Netherlands if you're not home, they'll try to deliver to your neighbours, and if they're also not home, then they'll deliver the package to a designated spot in your neighbourhood such as a corner shop or post office. You'll get a note in your letterbox telling you where the package got delivered.

I don't imagine porch piracy is much of an issue for food delivery, since you're presumably already home when you order the food.

A month ago I went to walk my dog before bed at around 11pm and found a Doordash order from hours earlier. I assume it was for one of my neighbors but didn't recognize the name.

They didn't even ring the doorbell.

 

[reaperexpress]

The other problem is a lot of stuff isn’t delivered by Canada Post, so if fedex drops something off and you aren’t home, you have to go to their distribution centre halfway across town.

I'm not just talking about PostNL. I'm talking about all delivery companies. There are countless locations which have signed up as package drop off locations. Pretty much every post office and corner store, but also print shops, cafés, gas stations etc. I once picked up my package at a bar. There are also lockers on the street in some locations.

I once got a Purolator package when I lived downtown that I wasn’t home for and had to go to the portlands to pick it up. I didn’t own a car and there wasn’t really transit out there either - I had to have my buddy drive me. Giant pain in the a**

See above, this seems like an issue with density of the pickup network. In my experience, you never need to go more than a few hundred metres to reach your neighbourhood's package pickup location.

I find Europeans are super paranoid as someone who lived there.

Ah yes ... The monolithic culture of "Europeans"...

 

[T3G]

I once did Security at a Condominium where a person would order McDonalds before he went to bed early in the morning.

We used to have to toss his food because of the smell and fact it sat there for hours. We were concerned it may attract bugs.

His logic: If he ordered his food before he went to bed, it would be hanging on his door when he woke up. He thought he would have breakfast waiting for him when he woke up.

So yes.. missing food is an issue.

Can we get a puking reaction emoji for the forum?!!?!?!

 

[Northern Light]

Because porch piracy in most of Canada is actually a very very small issue.

Doubtless true in small towns and such; but as someone who lives in a very middleclass, pretty safe area, I can tell you the neighbourhood social media groups are alive, almost daily with porch piracy complaints and camera feeds.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Doubtless true in small towns and such; but as someone who lives in a very middleclass, pretty safe area, I can tell you the neighbourhood social media groups are alive, almost daily with porch piracy complaints and camera feeds.

ahh but @Northern Light - you live in Toronto - a big city! That is your problem!

Most people in Canada don't live in an area like East York.

And most places will still have porch pirates - but they are so rare as to not be a major issue. The typical Canadian street like this one isn't going to have porch pirate issues, generally speaking.

 

[Northern Light]

I find Europeans are super paranoid as someone who lived there.

Really? Do tell what city/country. No street address required.

In many parts of Europe (not all) I would describe the opposite phenomenon.

In Oslo and in Copenhagen, I've seen parents leave their stroller, with a sleeping child in it, outside a store or cafe while they go inside for a few minutes. This is considered socially acceptable, while not everyone does it, for sure, its not 'abnormal' either.

That certainly doesn't strike me as paranoid; no one views this behavior as negligent or unreasonably risky, they didn't want to risk waking the child, futzing w/getting a stroller through a door, or removing the child from the stroller. If you ask 'but what if a stranger harms or takes your child? You will get a very strange, and consternated look, and if they're still talking you after, they'll note that kidnapping babies/toddlers is not a thing in their country, and who harms a stranger's young child in a stroller? Of course, the risk is not zero of such things, even there, but is remote, and so its not seen as something to be paranoid about.

Now, that is not considered acceptable/normal in all of Europe; and you shouldn't expect to see that happen in London, in my experience.

I don't know if I can think of a European country I've been to, and I've been to many where I would describe paranoia as a widespread state of being.

Certainly, in Rome, people are a bit more conscious of their wallets on the subways, where pick-pocketing is an art form.....

But that's more reasonable than paranoid.

 

[smallspy]

This is totally off topic, but it blows my mind that in Canada it's normal for delivery drivers to just leave packages outside. It's a recipe for package theft. In the Netherlands if you're not home, they'll try to deliver to your neighbours, and if they're also not home, then they'll deliver the package to a designated spot in your neighbourhood such as a corner shop or post office. You'll get a note in your letterbox telling you where the package got delivered.

I don't imagine porch piracy is much of an issue for food delivery, since you're presumably already home when you order the food.

Here's the thing - it's not normal to leave packages outside an establishment or edifice.

Okay, maybe that's not completely fair. But it's not completely not fair, either.

All of the courier companies have multiple different levels of options and services that they offer for shipping with them. One of the favourites at my workplace is Canada Post's "Do Not Safe Drop" - it costs an extra dollar and a bit, but the service ensures that a parcel is handed to a human being at the destination, not just dropped off outside of a doorway. Most of the courier companies have a similar option, and for a similar price. For the items that we are shipping, an extra dollar or two for some peace of mind for our customers is well worth it.

And therein lies the problem. Many companies have decided that the trade off between price and safety is simply not worth it - despite the frequent reports of parcel theft and "porch pirates". That worked out to their benefit when a fraction of a percent of all of the parcels were reported as going missing, but with parcel theft being reported in the double-digit percentages in some places it blows my mind that this has continued in this manner unabated.

Dan

 

[crs1026]

^Getting back on track to GO and bike couriers....

I don'tlook at door delivery as an element of social design. There is clearly a public demand for it, and I'm not in favour of a government that would outlaw it. (I am however very much in favour of a government that imposes strict rules to ensure people earn a living wage for whatever their job is)

The better question is who should pay for it.

I'm baffled at the economics and carbon implications of the courier economy....I regularly order obscure items on Amazon....eg a $6 cable adapter....... track it online as it travels all the way from China, and then have it brought to my door by a delivery truck.... But....The old method would be for me to drive out to an obscure computer parts store in the 905 and hunt through their badly-organized shelves..... the part would likely still have come from China and cost $6, but my expenditure of gas and road capacity might have been greater, and using an online catalog is a lot faster and more reliable than that personal effort. So there is certainly value added, and possibly better carbon efficiency and economic value in terms of inventory control, etc. in the door delivery economy.

Food delivery is just one niche in that market driven system, and I am actually happier getting my food from a bicycle courier than someone in a loud, clapped out car that is racing aggressively all over my neighbourhood delivering pizza. (And I'm happier seeing my suburban neighbourhood evolve to something denser with local commercial space closer to every doorstep, so that we have bike couriers who don't have to make a 3km trip to deliver my food).

In my perfect theoretical world, the cost of that delivery would be bundled into the price charged and passed to the consumer. That includes the cost of the road that the Fedex van is using, and the cost of whatever GO capacity is necessary to accommodate bike couriers. And the customer can decide if the price is acceptable, relative to their other options. And demand would follow accordingly.

But in the real world.....pricing and users charges don't flow that precisely. So I would say, as a matter of policy and managing public infrastructure, GO simply can't afford to haul that many bicycles on a train of fixed capacity and growing demand.... and should require the bike couriers to figure out some other option. Without it becoming a matter of social policy.

- Paul

 

[robmausser]

Ah yes ... The monolithic culture of "Europeans"...

I love when someone posts positive things about Europeans, like that Not Just Bikes guy, all Europeans live like that, (even though most people in the Netherlands don't even live like he says) but when you say something negative about them, then its only a minority.

The fetishization of Europe by the left here always makes me laugh. I'm loving how Therme, an austrian company is throwing a monkey wrench in all of that with Ontario Place.

 

[T3G]

Fetishization? Can we perhaps have a civilized discussion here without vulgar ad hominem attacks?

N.B: there is a world of difference between saying "Virtually every major city of Europe prioritizes pedestrians or is trying to, open, welcoming public spaces, and has zoning laws which allow for services to be purchased and accessed conveniently instead of having to drag yourself many kilometres by car" and "Europeans are paranoid". One statement is a self evident fact seen in many (note: not ALL) places in Europe, the other is slander. If an understanding on this front cannot be reached, there is no point in furthering this discussion.

 

[Northern Light]

I love when someone posts positive things about Europeans, like that Not Just Bikes guy, all Europeans live like that, (even though most people in the Netherlands don't even live like he says) but when you say something negative about them, then its only a minority.

The fetishization of Europe by the left here always makes me laugh. I'm loving how Therme, an austrian company is throwing a monkey wrench in all of that with Ontario Place.

With great respect Rob, this post is a really, really bad take.

Over generalizations should broadly be avoided, be they positive or negative; but lets be clear, being overly positive about a place or group of people is nowhere near as bad as slagging an entire group of people, regardless of what group we are talking about.

The original post, that drew criticism is patently absurd. It did not merit a defence.

 

[reaperexpress]

I love when someone posts positive things about Europeans, like that Not Just Bikes guy, all Europeans live like that, (even though most people in the Netherlands don't even live like he says) but when you say something negative about them, then its only a minority.

The fetishization of Europe by the left here always makes me laugh. I'm loving how Therme, an austrian company is throwing a monkey wrench in all of that with Ontario Place.

My comments have always specifically referred to the Netherlands because that's where I lived until a few months ago. I was sharing my lived experience in South Holland and my subsequent culture shock moving to Ontario.

I don't make claims about "Europeans" as an entity, positive or negative.