nfitz
Superstar
???
The Liberals promised all-day Go service by 2020 on several occasions during their previous term - and they've been spending a lot of money on infrastructure upgrades to be able to do this.
I fail to see why this is news.
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- Thread starter drum118
- Start date
The Liberals promised all-day Go service by 2020 on several occasions during their previous term - and they've been spending a lot of money on infrastructure upgrades to be able to do this.
I fail to see why this is news.
drum118
Superstar
Lets get him to tell us where he plan on getting 450+ new engineers to run this all day service as well move to 20 minute service.
He doing the same thing as Ford did on Subway.
I know he was piss off with the first BOD for Metrolinx, as they were not getting things into the ground fast enough to show his 2020 plan for this election, that he fired them.
If he went with my 2008 recommendation that would have added an extra $2.5B to his plan, he would be saying "see what I am doing for improvement of transit for the GTA" now.
GO has being sucking the big bucks for this 2020 plan to date, yet carries 5% of the ridership of all the transit systems in the GTA, if that.
nfitz
Superstar
That number makes no sense ... is it a typo? There's only about 70 or so engineers currently, so I hear. Obviously more engineers are necessary - but 6 times as many?
If 45 new engineers are required, then to fulfill the promise of full-day service in the next 10 years, then you'd only need to increase by 4-5 a year. All they have to do is to spend money for training over the next decade. It doesn't sound that difficult.
How is it anywhere near comparable. There's no new promises. What was promised today, is word-for-word out of a 3-month old Infrastructure Ontario release. And it's the same thing that appears in various planning documents over the last 3-4 years. There's nothing dramatic or sudden here ... I'm not sure what you are reacting to.
rbt
Senior Member
Over 5 years? I understand training is a 2 year thing, so that portion should be doable. Putting an extra pair of tracks down the Milton corridor in that timeframe will be much harder.
Not certain where the 20 minute number came from. All day most likely means hourly for most lines.
This is really a commitment to put another $2B into GO capital to continue buying/building corridors. Training engineers is both fast and cheap compared to the capital expansion necessary.
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salmonz
New Member
Why is there a need for all day GO service?
Morning questions:
How many people would travel from Union to Richmond Hill in the morning?
Why would people be traveling from Union to Milton in the morning?
Evening questions:
How many people would travel from Richmond Hill to Union in the evening?
Why would people be traveling from Milton to Union in the evening?
Morning questions:
How many people would travel from Union to Richmond Hill in the morning?
Why would people be traveling from Union to Milton in the morning?
Evening questions:
How many people would travel from Richmond Hill to Union in the evening?
Why would people be traveling from Milton to Union in the evening?
DKsan
Active Member
Because some people live in Toronto and work in Milton or Richmond Hill or Brampton, etc.
It might not be a lot of people...but I knew high school teachers who did it and had to drive up to Brampton from their places in downtown Toronto.
It might not be a lot of people...but I knew high school teachers who did it and had to drive up to Brampton from their places in downtown Toronto.
DavidJamesTO
Active Member
Not to mention going to on-site meetings, half days, going back home to get that missing document, going into town for shopping or theatre--and the list goes on.
denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2011/09/04/toronto-ont-liberal-platform-leak.html
I'm expectimg half hour service and Niagara expansion.
i know this has been posted.
I'm expectimg half hour service and Niagara expansion.
i know this has been posted.
denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
5 crews for 60 minutes. 10 for 30 on the Lake shore.
15 new engineers is not that hard at all.
15 new engineers is not that hard at all.
EnviroTO
Senior Member
In 2008 the Big Move was published. It's 15 year plan would mean implementation by 2023 and had a target of all-day service on all the existing lines, plus more frequent Express service on the Georgetown and Lakeshore lines. Obviously to meet those objectives improvements will need to get started in the next term of the provincial government which will run until 2017. The GO Rail Beneftis Case Analysis show a 2021 target and one should assume that a part of that would be implemented prior to 2017. Most lines have a target of 30 minute service outside the AM and PM rush hour for 2021... so if this is done incrementally something like 2 hour service in 2015, hourly in 2017, and 30 min in 2021 might make sense. Maybe focusing on a few lines at a time makes sense but that wouldn't sell for those people on the unchosen lines. Definitely construction on the Milton line needs to start during the next 5 year term to meet the target delivery date.
EnviroTO
Senior Member
I don't think there is anything cheap about the amount of money poured into GO infrastructure during the last term. Union Station, purchasing rail corridors, capacity upgrades at line stations, additional tracks on Lakeshore and Georgetown, the Air-Rail Link, and three diamond separation projects. Has there ever been a time with more construction happening at GO than there is now?
vegeta_skyline
Senior Member
No not at all, except for the part where it takes about 3 years to become one.
About 2 month initial training, then 6 weeks conductor observation, then at least 2 years on the job as a conductor, then waiting until the previous group is finished or until there is enough people to form a class for the next one, and finally 6-7 months engineer training.
Yup, in comparison training should be just about the easiest part of it. Too bad they've been going as slow as molasses. The current rate has been about a dozen a year, minus the loses and the net increase is minimal.
As for the corridors, only the Bala & part of the Oakville left to buy and maybe the Guelph sub if they want that.
I hope nobody gets me wrong, all day service IS coming. Just not as soon as we all expect. (which actually was a year or two ago
)andrewpmk
Senior Member
Many people commute in the opposite direction from downtown, many people commute from one suburb to another, and many people work hours other than Monday-Friday 9am-5pm. A lot of people also travel for non-work purposes. Unfortunately, most of these trips are very poorly served by transit, and the vast majority of trips are done by car. The fact that there is often traffic congestion on the highways in the middle of the day, well into the evening and on weekends clearly indicates that there is lots of demand for travel outside the traditional workday schedule.
In any case, all day GO works in conjunction with connecting subway, bus and LRT services. For example, suppose you live near Yonge & Eglinton in Toronto. With all day GO one can for example take the subway to Union, then the Milton line, then for example the 5 Dixie bus to work at a bunch of employers near Dixie/Eglinton (Canada Post, RIM, TD etc.), the 19 Hurontario to work near 401/Hurontario (Samsung, Oracle, Leon's, etc.), or the 42 Derry to work near 401/Mississauga (Microsoft, Dupont, GE, etc.)
denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
No not at all, except for the part where it takes about 3 years to become one.
About 2 month initial training, then 6 weeks conductor observation, then at least 2 years on the job as a conductor, then waiting until the previous group is finished or until there is enough people to form a class for the next one, and finally 6-7 months engineer training.
Yup, in comparison training should be just about the easiest part of it. Too bad they've been going as slow as molasses. The current rate has been about a dozen a year, minus the loses and the net increase is minimal.
As for the corridors, only the Bala & part of the Oakville left to buy and maybe the Guelph sub if they want that.
I hope nobody gets me wrong, all day service IS coming. Just not as soon as we all expect. (which actually was a year or two ago
Is the Conductor part really necessary?
What about Lakeshore half hour service vegeta?
drum118
Superstar
Get real!!!
How many hours are crews allow to Work a day and Week??
How many hours does GO run services??
How many weeks of holiday do crews get??
Who cover for the the crew that doesn't show up or has to leave early??
Who cover for the crew when it comes to Lunch and dinner time?
How many crew retire, quite or go and work for someone else after they are train yearly??
Spare ratio is 10%-20%, with 15% being the average.
There are 5 trains on the line currently, 7 days a week, operating 18 hrs a day for 60 minute headway. This means you will have 3 crew per train per day, 15 crews per day plus 3 spare in total. Now you got to add in your weekend crews. On top of that, 1-2 crews will be on holiday weekly. For argument, that is about 35 crews for 60 minutes service 7 days a week.
To go to 30 minute service, you are going to need about 70 crews.
To go to the plan 20 minute under the RTP, you up to about 100 and that is for the Lakeshore line only.
Now add hourly service on all the other line and move toward the 20 minute service, you are getting close to the 400 crew level.
On top of that, you are going to have express trains at peak time that will run every 5-15 minutes and over the 400 level you go.
It has been stated time after time, the Toronto West Corridor will see over 400 trains a day servicing Milton, Barrie, the airport, Georgetown and KW.
Not everyone can drive a train just like a bus, streetcar or subway let alone a car.
Doing shift work and split shift is not for everyone. I have done shift work during the summer school holidays and could get no sleep doing it.
It great to say what you said, but until you do planning and scheduling for any field of work, numbers are unreal.
I have done planning and scheduling not related to transit, but the method is still the same, with various unknown factors.
To find out what you need in the way of service, trains and crews starts with the total round trip time run time including time to move from one end of the train to the other. You need to add layover time for the crew also. With this info, you can decided what your headway will be and that will tell you how many trains will be on the line. The length of operation hours will tell you how many crews you are going to need per train and you have to add extra time to get trains to/from the yard.
Up to a few years ago, GO was subject to time slots, as to when they could run trains by CN and CP. Today, GO has more control over that on most lines other than the CP Milton line, until that line is 4 tracked.
Any new crews GO gets today, they add them to various lines as extra trains.
The day GO can start offering 30 minutes or less to all the lines is the day you will see a huge shift in transit use. If you can get service down to 10-15, people will use transit with out a second thought.
The current service even with full trains is the pits if you have to wait 2 hrs for a 1 hr service because a train broke down on the line. If you been on one of those trains, it not fun as well seeing your service being cancel.
You can do the math for all the lines to come up with a number of crews for hourly service and then move toward the RTP 2031 numbers to see how many crews are going to need by then.