[canarob]

Is it? There's only 3 staff on each train. And people tend to get on and off at each station, which I don't see as much on GO Buses. And there seems to be as many passengers in both directions, unlike GO Buses, that seem rather empty on the reverse trip, even in peak.

Ridership numbers by run would be interesting to look at. I could be dead wrong as I'm just going by my own experience.

 

[TFC]

Does GO release their ridership numbers by run?

 

[nfitz]

Does GO release their ridership numbers by run?

No.

And all our experiences are going to be jaded by a relatively limited view of what we see. I certainly don't see packed GO buses at York at mid-day. And I can't imagine that westbound runs out of Union at 10 AM are going to be even 25% full. They certainly don't seem packed as they drive out of Union ... but I should watch more closely.

At the same time, I've never sat in a GO train and been the only person in sight. Which means that there's likely at least 4 people per coach - 40 people per train, at all times, at least near Union. Though far more in my experience, even off-peak. Add in the longer distances, and quicker travel time, and that they tend to carry as many in each direction ... and I'd think the off-peak Lakeshore trains would give buses a run for their money for profitability.

 

[TOareaFan]

No.

And all our experiences are going to be jaded by a relatively limited view of what we see. I certainly don't see packed GO buses at York at mid-day. And I can't imagine that westbound runs out of Union at 10 AM are going to be even 25% full. They certainly don't seem packed as they drive out of Union ... but I should watch more closely.

At the same time, I've never sat in a GO train and been the only person in site. Which means that there's likely at least 4 people per coach - 40 people per train, at all times, at least near Union. Though far more in my experience, even off-peak. Add in the longer distances, and quicker travel time, and that they tend to carry as many in each direction ... and I'd think the off-peak Lakeshore trains would give buses a run for their money for profitability.

The variences of time and personal experiences are why I limited my comments to what we, I think, all know. That is that all train lines experience at/over/near capacity during peak commuter times and since GO has stated that their fare recovery is 85% I think it is safe to assume that peak train travel (on all lines) is generating no worse than break even and, likely, is operating at a surplus.

To my original point, then, if that was all GO ran it would be profitiable so those peak train trips (on all lines) subsidize (to varying degrees) the non-peak service.

 

[rbt]

No.

And all our experiences are going to be jaded by a relatively limited view of what we see.

Yes. Nobody on this forum has been a passenger on an entirely empty train

There are much greater odds of you being on the train when most of the passengers are there than when it has low use. We would need some real counts for these things done by staff before comparing.

The same issue arises with bus counts.

 

[nfitz]

Yes. Nobody on this forum has been a passenger on an entirely empty train

There are much greater odds of you being on the train when most of the passengers are there than when it has low use.

An interesting thought! Though some of my observations are of the midnight train on a weeknight ... not sure it gets any quieter than that!

But I agree, it's hard to quantify without data - which we'll likely never seek, unless an employee sends the data to Wikileaks.

 

[gweed123]

At the same time, I've never sat in a GO train and been the only person in sight. Which means that there's likely at least 4 people per coach - 40 people per train, at all times, at least near Union. Though far more in my experience, even off-peak. Add in the longer distances, and quicker travel time, and that they tend to carry as many in each direction ... and I'd think the off-peak Lakeshore trains would give buses a run for their money for profitability.

I've been the only person in a GO Train car and the only passenger on a GO bus a couple of times. Granted those were late night trips and they were both inbound to Union.

But yes, I would agree that most of the time, even in late night, the Lakeshore trains (or at least the Lakeshore West trains) average between 6 to 10 people per car, unless it's after an event or something. When I used to live downtown but travel out to Burlington, I frequently took the 9, 10, or 11pm trains back into Toronto, and that number sounds about right.

Certainly not enough for the service to be profitable, but not exactly a huge money pit.

 

[Long Island Mike]

Wow ... from:

to:

An infinite improvement! I see that they've switched the colours of Lakeshore East and Lakeshore West, along with Barrie and Richmond Hill. I wonder why they bothered adding a curve between Old Cummer and Langstaff, rather than just a straight line.

Everyone: I am "on the fence" about the new GO Transit map and I feel that it should be more geographically correct but it does show
the system somewhat well-I did not have a problem with the older map but I do feel that it could be improved-the GO Bus routes shown
in a complicated manner is the problem that stands out to me...LI MIKE

 

[smallspy]

Does GO release their ridership numbers by run?

No.

Wrong, actually.

They do take stats down to the per-station loadings of individual trains, but they aren't normally publicly available. I suspect that if you ask nicely (or put in a freedom of information request) that you'll get them.

Yes. Nobody on this forum has been a passenger on an entirely empty train

Of course not. I have however been the only passenger on an in-service train for the entirety of its trip. It was a bit surreal, to be honest.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[Jonny5]

This isn't typical, and the odd overcrowded bus does not outweigh the hundreds of bus runs that still have seats left.

Even if it was typical, they would quickly add service to reduce crowding. That would eliminate any "profit" being made.

I estimate I have taken at least five thousand trips on the Hamilton Express in my life (I remember the old days, when it went to and from the Elm Street terminal in Toronto and the Rebecca street terminal in Hamilton). From my experience, this route is busy all the time, every day of the week. There certainly are not hundreds of runs with mostly empty seats, it is hundreds of runs of mostly full buses. I have had to stand on buses at 10:00pm on Sunday, many times. During rush hour, while the trains to Hamilton are going, the buses still leave Union about 2/3 full, every 15 minutes. GO can't add service fast enough to this route. Even now, having just gone up to 20 minutes service minimum, 7 days a week, for most of each day, these buses still have heavy loads and I have still had to stand.

At $9.50 a ride, I can't see this route not being profitable.

EDIT: If they converted to Double Decker, it would be even better, but IIRC, there is some height clearance issue preventing that.

(God, I can't believe how much money I've sunk into riding that route. Long distance relationships are expensive!)

 

[nfitz]

Wrong, actually.

I'm wrong that they don't release them? Do you have a different definition of wrong?

They do take stats down to the per-station loadings of individual trains, but they aren't normally publicly available.

Oh hang on ... you mean that they don't release them?

Forcing it out of them with a FOIA is hardly a release!

 

[Platform 27]

Everyone: I am "on the fence" about the new GO Transit map and I feel that it should be more geographically correct but it does show
the system somewhat well-I did not have a problem with the older map but I do feel that it could be improved-the GO Bus routes shown
in a complicated manner is the problem that stands out to me...LI MIKE

The new map is considerably closer to "real" geography than the old one. In order to have a "flat" lake across the bottom, the old map squished the western GTA really badly.

 

[Hipster Duck]

Sort of OT, but does Metrolinx have any intention of renaming "York University" station on the Barrie line to something else? Even before the Spadina subway opens, I always found that name to be a bit misleading since the vast majority of GO trips to York U will be by bus, and not even travel close to "York University" train station.

 

[gweed123]

Sort of OT, but does Metrolinx have any intention of renaming "York University" station on the Barrie line to something else? Even before the Spadina subway opens, I always found that name to be a bit misleading since the vast majority of GO trips to York U will be by bus, and not even travel close to "York University" train station.

Are they keeping the current York U station active once the Downsview Park station is open? Seems sort of redundant to have 2 stations so close together.

 

[ShonTron]

I believe "York University" station will close when Downsview Park GO/TTC Station opens.

I'd like to see a new GO station near where the Barrie Line crosses Highway 7.