[smallspy]

That was his point (I think, sometimes it is hard to tell).

2 FPs can run a 12 car train.

1 FP and 1 MP can run a 12 car train (a combination they were using).

1MP can run a 12 car train all by itself.

If you have 2 FPs and 1 MP, you can run two 12-car trains if you pair up the FPs and let the MP stand alone.

First off, let's stop calling them "FP"s please. They are F59PHs. The only locomotives that ran in Canada that had the letters "FP" in them were the EMD-built FP7As and FP9As built in the 1950s.

Second, all of the trains to Kitchener have been L10s. They have not run 12-car trains out there as yet, although that is the plan at some point in the not-so-distant future.

Third, I believe that Drum's point was that using F59s on the run frees up MP40s that they can use on extended trainsets, but I'm willing to wait to hear him clarify his point.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[canarob]

Some documents for tomorrow's Metrolinx board meeting: http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/agendas/agendas_2012_06_21.aspx

From the 2012/13 Business Plan and Capital and Operating Plan, I found a couple of graphs that demonstrate my long-standing grievance about crowding on the Stouffville Line.

Some other relevant charts, etc.

It's interesting to see such high growth on Lakeshore East, but remember from another thread that it was the only line that lost riders during the recession.

 

[TOareaFan]

^ question for those who might know. I have often wondered how GO measures percent capacity on their trains. Afterall, the way the fare system works, a good number of people board and use the trains without ever registering. Monthly passholders neither tap, nor buy a ticket nor inform which train they are using. Yet GO somehow manages (and I am not disputing them on it) to give percent capacity by train.

Is it as simple as every no and then they count how many people on a train and use that day's count as a proxy for regular capacity? Given the commuter nature of the system...it is probably a pretty accurate proxy but I just always wondered how they did it.

 

[nfitz]

Looking at the 2012/2013 business plan, there will be no additional rail services added after this month.

 

[smallspy]

^ question for those who might know. I have often wondered how GO measures percent capacity on their trains. Afterall, the way the fare system works, a good number of people board and use the trains without ever registering. Monthly passholders neither tap, nor buy a ticket nor inform which train they are using. Yet GO somehow manages (and I am not disputing them on it) to give percent capacity by train.

Is it as simple as every no and then they count how many people on a train and use that day's count as a proxy for regular capacity? Given the commuter nature of the system...it is probably a pretty accurate proxy but I just always wondered how they did it.

They do scheduled head counts twice a year on all of the trains and stations of all of the corridors. All of the numbers that they then provide are estimated, but generally quite accurate.

Moving to Presto will allow them to have actual data on a day-to-day and week-to-week basis.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[canarob]

Looking at the 2012/2013 business plan, there will be no additional rail services added after this month.

12-car trains will help reduce crowding for a little while, but I'm really hoping we can see at least a few more runs in 2013-14. I know the focus is on 2015 and the Pan Am Games, but that's still a ways off!

 

[nfitz]

12-car trains will help reduce crowding for a little while, but I'm really hoping we can see at least a few more runs in 2013-14. I know the focus is on 2015 and the Pan Am Games, but that's still a ways off!

I agree. I don't know if it's a money issue, or a lack of engineers issue, or what. But I'd hoped to see service ramped up more quickly. If they wait another couple of years, they'll have hit the point where they can start all-day service on some of the lines other than Lakeshore, and Lakeshore will once again be left without the long-promised off-peak service increases.

 

[smallspy]

I agree. I don't know if it's a money issue, or a lack of engineers issue, or what.

It's a "there is no more room for more trains during rush hour at Union Station" issue. And it won't be resolved until the work on the trainshed is completed.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[TOareaFan]

I agree. I don't know if it's a money issue, or a lack of engineers issue, or what. But I'd hoped to see service ramped up more quickly. If they wait another couple of years, they'll have hit the point where they can start all-day service on some of the lines other than Lakeshore, and Lakeshore will once again be left without the long-promised off-peak service increases.

It's a "there is no more room for more trains during rush hour at Union Station" issue. And it won't be resolved until the work on the trainshed is completed.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

As much as I don't see an issue with the other lines getting a bit caught up in their service levels before any further service additions to Lakeshore.....it should be noted that what nfitz is looking for would have little impact at rush hour.

 

[canarob]

It's a "there is no more room for more trains during rush hour at Union Station" issue. And it won't be resolved until the work on the trainshed is completed.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

A few slightly-off-peak runs would still do wonders though. A lot of those 7 and 8 PM buses are pretty damn crowded.

 

[SGHA504]

It's a "there is no more room for more trains during rush hour at Union Station" issue. And it won't be resolved until the work on the trainshed is completed.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

Is there a documented timeline for expansion of off-peak Lakeshore service? Surely Union renovations can't be holding it up.

 

[smallspy]

As much as I don't see an issue with the other lines getting a bit caught up in their service levels before any further service additions to Lakeshore.....it should be noted that what nfitz is looking for would have little impact at rush hour.

I was referring to the first part of his comments, and additional rush hour runs specifically. Those are the ones that are currently the most heavily crowded and in need of additional trains.

A few slightly-off-peak runs would still do wonders though. A lot of those 7 and 8 PM buses are pretty damn crowded.

Agreed, but how does GO provide them? They don't have the equipment right now for more trainsets (although it is on the way), and on most of the lines they can't deadhead the equipment back to Union in a reasonable amount of time to get a second run out to replace those bus trips.

Is there a documented timeline for expansion of off-peak Lakeshore service? Surely Union renovations can't be holding it up.

I don't think anything has been publicly announced as yet, other than the Premier mentioning it during the last election campaign. There had been internal deadlines that have long since passed, and I haven't heard anything about a new one/ones.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[nfitz]

It would be interesting to what was presented in the Five Year Strategy 2012-2017 at Metrolinx's meeting yesterday.

 

[canarob]

Agreed, but how does GO provide them? They don't have the equipment right now for more trainsets (although it is on the way), and on most of the lines they can't deadhead the equipment back to Union in a reasonable amount of time to get a second run out to replace those bus trips.

Will it take three years to get the equipment though? I know I sound like a broken record, but the development of regional centres like Markham Centre are very dependant on GO service, and development is charging forward without any new service. God help us if the arena gets built by 2014 as proposed!

It would be interesting to what was presented in the Five Year Strategy 2012-2017 at Metrolinx's meeting yesterday.

The video is live here now: http://www.metrolinx.com/en/aboutus/videolibrary/multimedia.aspx

I didn't watch it end to end or anything, but some highlights I noticed:

-predicted 30% growth in bus travel with more suburb to suburb trips (sounds good to me!)
-predicted 20% growth in rail travel, two-way off-peak service, enhanced peak service, etc. (no details)

 

[reaperexpress]

On Saturday, I filmed some of the new weekend Barrie Line trains at the passing track between Maple and King City.

Both trains had 10 car sets with two locomotives each. I didn't see anyone on the trains other than the conductor, though there could have been people on the upper decks.

[video=youtube;we54rYk1Ph8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we54rYk1Ph8&feature=plcp[/video]

It seems awfully wasteful to run big dual-engine consists on this low-ridership service. Maybe they should create weekday consists with a cab car in the middle so that trains can easily be split into smaller trains on weekends. That would cut way down on fuel use and could yield better acceleration, depending on how many cars they run.