[TOareaFan]

Which is why all-day service is coming to other lines over the coming works. Others can give you timelines, I"m sure.

Also, from the Globe and Mail leak a few weeks ago, it looks like next weeks' Metrolinx RTP will recommend 15 minute all day service on most lines.

It just seems that with all that rolling stock lying around on weekends it would be a good initial service improvement on the not Lakeshore lines to extend the current limited weekday service to 7 day a week service.

 

[DavidH]

It just seems that with all that rolling stock lying around on weekends it would be a good initial service improvement on the not Lakeshore lines to extend the current limited weekday service to 7 day a week service.

Agreed, but it's not as simple as that. Some lines are single tracked, some are shared with freight, staff need to be hired and trained (and remember that GO is in the middle of transitioning to Bombardier crews so training more crews right now would be problematic) and in any case agreements need to be made with the railroads.

So, it will happen - but it will take time.

 

[TOareaFan]

Agreed, but it's not as simple as that. Some lines are single tracked, some are shared with freight, staff need to be hired and trained (and remember that GO is in the middle of transitioning to Bombardier crews so training more crews right now would be problematic) and in any case agreements need to be made with the railroads.

So, it will happen - but it will take time.

I think GO has gotten way to much leeway out of that "track space" line for too long. Are we to believe that the lines can handle limited commuter trains on the weekdays plus freight trains but on weekends they can only handle freight on the weekends? Is there so much more freight trains on the weekends than on weekdays?

The no weekend service on most lines long pre-dates the transition to Bombaridier crews.....but GO has never even shown an interest in providing rail service on the non-lakeshore lines on weekends....at some point "reasons" become "excuses".

 

[DavidH]

The no weekend service on most lines long pre-dates the transition to Bombaridier crews.....but GO has never even shown an interest in providing rail service on the non-lakeshore lines on weekends....at some point "reasons" become "excuses".

I can't argue with that. GO needs to view themselves as a generalized transit service rather than as a strictly commuter service. But GO is now saying that all-day service (presumably including weekends) will be coming so the question is not why haven't they, but what prevents them from doing it immediately. I can't say that the items I listed above are all issues at this point, but they seem to be things that need taking care of before service can happen. Whether they are truly delaying things is something that only GO could answer, I suspect.

 

[TOareaFan]

I can't argue with that. GO needs to view themselves as a generalized transit service rather than as a strictly commuter service. But GO is now saying that all-day service (presumably including weekends) will be coming so the question is not why haven't they, but what prevents them from doing it immediately. I can't say that the items I listed above are all issues at this point, but they seem to be things that need taking care of before service can happen. Whether they are truly delaying things is something that only GO could answer, I suspect.

GO has been saying that "eventually" all lines would be full service since I started using the limited service Georgetown line in the early 80's.

There does seem to be a bit more meat on the bones this time around but I just wonder why, if we are eventually going to go to full service on all lines, we don't see them introducing the same limited service they have on weekends as they do on weekdays? If nothing else it would get the customers used to having some service on the weekends and begin the process of re-educating people on how to get around the city/region on the weekends.

For example, I believe the Jays are hosting the Boston Red Sox this weekend......how many people from the 905 areas that currently have no rail service will drive in this weekend? How many of those would take a train if they could. It would seem to me that the regular weekday service would give a lot of people that option.

 

[DavidH]

... if we are eventually going to go to full service on all lines, we don't see them introducing the same limited service they have on weekends as they do on weekdays?

But weekday service on those lines is rush hour only. This may be limited, but it's well defined and people know those trains are going to run. Weekends are a bigger problem, and a limited service model much much harder to make work. If you say that are going to run trains for the Jays, terrific - but now you have trains running some hours and not others. That kind of variability will lead to people not taking the trains because they don't know when they will be available, particularly since potential riders' weekend trips are MUCH more varied in scheduling. Some go downtown for work, some for shopping, some for clubbing, some for sports, etc - and ALL of these groups have different travel times for the other groups.

I'm not against the idea itself but I really don't see how any "irregular" service is workable outside of the rush hour trips where people travel at the same time five days a week.

No, the next logical step is to add hourly all-day service, covering the three time periods (midday, evening, and weekend). Not all periods need to be introduced at once, but once a period is introduced riders need to know that the trains will be running every hour during that time period, without any scheduled exceptions.

And this is exactly what GO has done on Lakeshore, so it seems very reasonable to assume that the model will be transferred to other lines.

 

[TOareaFan]

But weekday service on those lines is rush hour only. This may be limited, but it's well defined and people know those trains are going to run. Weekends are a bigger problem, and a limited service model much much harder to make work. If you say that are going to run trains for the Jays, terrific - but now you have trains running some hours and not others. That kind of variability will lead to people not taking the trains because they don't know when they will be available, particularly since potential riders' weekend trips are MUCH more varied in scheduling. Some go downtown for work, some for shopping, some for clubbing, some for sports, etc - and ALL of these groups have different travel times for the other groups.

I'm not against the idea itself but I really don't see how any "irregular" service is workable outside of the rush hour trips where people travel at the same time five days a week.

No, the next logical step is to add hourly all-day service, covering the three time periods (midday, evening, and weekend). Not all periods need to be introduced at once, but once a period is introduced riders need to know that the trains will be running every hour during that time period, without any scheduled exceptions.

And this is exactly what GO has done on Lakeshore, so it seems very reasonable to assume that the model will be transferred to other lines.

I never said irregular service...I just pointed out that even the midweek service might be useful to people coming downtown for events (such as the Jays game).

Take the last available morning train in, explore downtown a bit...head over for the 1:30 pitch.....3 hours later head home on the train......seems to me that there is always stuff going on downtown....seems silly to assume that only those on the Lakeshore line would want to train in for those things!

Just start by running exactly the same service on the limited service lines on weekends (gosh, even drop a couple of the trains if you think the frequencies are too croweded) it would still be way, way less service than the Lakeshore folks have but it would be something.

 

[DavidH]

Just start by running exactly the same service on the limited service lines on weekends (gosh, even drop a couple of the trains if you think the frequencies are too croweded) it would still be way, way less service than the Lakeshore folks have but it would be something.

I guess I'm having trouble following. By "limited", what exactly do you mean? Several trains a day, or the rush hour service move dto the weekend, or what?

I absolutely agree that broader service hours and better frequencies on all lines (and yes, let's bring up REX) are critical to make these lines useful for travellers other than rush hour commuters. Bus services do not cut it for routes that have trains even some of the time. It sends the message that "we'll carry you if we have to, but we don't really want to".

 

[TOareaFan]

I guess I'm having trouble following. By "limited", what exactly do you mean? Several trains a day, or the rush hour service move dto the weekend, or what?

I absolutely agree that broader service hours and better frequencies on all lines (and yes, let's bring up REX) are critical to make these lines useful for travellers other than rush hour commuters. Bus services do not cut it for routes that have trains even some of the time. It sends the message that "we'll carry you if we have to, but we don't really want to".

Here is the Bramalea station's weekday service.

http://www.gotransit.com/publicroot/en/PDF/Quicktables/UNION/CurrentBoard/BLGO.pdf

cut out the 7:15 and 7:30 a.m. eastbound and the 16:45 westbound and you have a pretty useful weekend service.

 

[nfitz]

I'd say in terms of expansion, the steps, and ridership would be:

1) Peak weekday service
2) off-peak weekday service
3) weekend service

The contracts GO would negotiate with CN would make it difficult to start weekend service in anything but the same time slots they already run on weekdays, and I can't imagine that would be useful to many.

The good news is that it's coming, and everyone is taking it seriously. There's been serious discussion of increasing the Lakeshore frequency since the mid-1970s, and construction started back in 2004. I'm sure this will happen much faster now on the other routes.

Here is the Bramalea station's weekday service.
cut out the 7:15 and 7:30 a.m. eastbound and the 16:45 westbound and you have a pretty useful weekend service.

Good point. Write to GO!

 

[TOareaFan]

I'd say in terms of expansion, the steps, and ridership would be:

1) Peak weekday service
2) off-peak weekday service
3) weekend service

The contracts GO would negotiate with CN would make it difficult to start weekend service in anything but the same time slots they already run on weekdays, and I can't imagine that would be useful to many.

The good news is that it's coming, and everyone is taking it seriously. There's been serious discussion of increasing the Lakeshore frequency since the mid-1970s, and construction started back in 2004. I'm sure this will happen much faster now on the other routes.

Good point. Write to GO!

They stopped writing back about my suggestions in the early 90's....the last letter they sent me, actually, was in response to a new service I proposed....they said, then, "we will not add any new rail services until all of our existing stations are full service 7 days a week".....I guess that went out the window when political pressure said they should serve Barrie.

 

[lordmandeep]

Here is the Bramalea station's weekday service.
cut out the 7:15 and 7:30 a.m. eastbound and the 16:45 westbound and you have a pretty useful weekend service.

really they can have one train going back and forth really and it would be great.


Imo this could apply to any of the lines...
Leaves 10:30am and reaches 11:05 Union.
Leaves 11:15 am and reaches 11:50 Bramalea.
Leaves 12pm and reaches 12:35 Union.
Leaves 12:45 and reaches 1:20 Bramalea.
Leaves 1:30 and reaches 2:05 Union.
Leaves 2:15 and reaches 2:50 Bramalea.
Leaves 3:00 and reaches 3:35 Union
Leaves 3:45 and reaches 4:20 Bramalea
Leaves 4:30 and reaches 5:05 Union
Leaves 5:15 and reaches 5:50 Bramalea..
Leaves 6:00 and reaches 6:45 Union (last train from Bramalea)


Then just have a 10pm train heading out taking the night crowd.

 

[TOareaFan]

The good news is that it's coming, and everyone is taking it seriously. There's been serious discussion of increasing the Lakeshore frequency since the mid-1970s, and construction started back in 2004. I'm sure this will happen much faster now on the other routes.

Good point. Write to GO!

Lakeshore line already had weekend and off peak service in 2004....no? This is what irks a lot of non-lakeshore riders (and I admit it irks me)...you already have a line with service both ways 7 days a week.....and you still spend money on that line to make it even more frequent....when you have a bunch of lines that need investment to get them anywhere close to the Lakeshore.

I know I sound, sometimes, like all I am advocating is better service on the Georgetown line but, really, if in 2004 they had invested in getting 7 day, 2 way service on Milton or Richmond Hill I would have seen that as progress more than putting money into Lakeshore that will only widen the gap between that line and the others.

GO is funded by all taxpayers, there is absolutely no reason this level of dispartity should ever have been allowed to develop.

 

[TOareaFan]

really they can have one train going back and forth really and it would be great.


Imo this could apply to any of the lines...
Leaves 10:30am and reaches 11:05 Union.
Leaves 11:15 am and reaches 11:50 Bramalea.
Leaves 12pm and reaches 12:35 Union.
Leaves 12:45 and reaches 1:20 Bramalea.
Leaves 1:30 and reaches 2:05 Union.
Leaves 2:15 and reaches 2:50 Bramalea.
Leaves 3:00 and reaches 3:35 Union
Leaves 3:45 and reaches 4:20 Bramalea
Leaves 4:30 and reaches 5:05 Union
Leaves 5:15 and reaches 5:50 Bramalea..
Leaves 6:00 and reaches 6:45 Union (last train from Bramalea)


Then just have a 10pm train heading out taking the night crowd.

But GO decided long ago that people in Bramalea/Brampton (all 450,000 of them) go to bed at 8 p.m. so there really is no need for a train after 6:45.

 

[lordmandeep]

true and ridership is growing very very very fast on the Georgetown line and others...