[dowlingm]

Still think the reaction of Brampton to this link will make the HMLRT debacle seem like a gentle breeze.

 

[timio]

You may recall the pre-election promise of doubling GO train service to KW by end of the year.....it was always carefully worded and had some people excited that it meant a doubling of the service in the hole corridor.....of course what GO/ML really meant that instead of two of the current (or recently expanded) trains in each direction serving KW, 4 would do so. It always meant "2X trains to KW" not "2X as many trains in the KW corridor".

Anyway, as things do, the key part of that (a new, expanded layover area) was slow in starting...it has now started and the doubling of trains to KW now looks to be a late 2016 thing.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitch...-service-thwarted-by-30-km-of-track-1.3320962

EDIT....now that I think of it....even the date may have been a careful wording thing...I can't recall if they said before 2016 or before end of 2015 or "by" 2016....if it was the latter, I may have falling into the trap of forgetting that any date in 2016 is as much meeting that promise as the first of January.

The original expansion to Kitchener was promised as a By the end of 2011 project. It ended up starting mid-December. So likely this is going to be a December 2016 thing. I doubt that it'll be any sooner if major construction is just starting on the layover now. It took about 8 months for the current 2-train temporary siding to be built in 2011.

 

[crs1026]

I think most people knew that the promises made by Wynne back before the election were extravagant and not worth the paper they were made on

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitch...gion-to-toronto-coming-says-premier-1.2577245
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitch...toronto-to-kitchener-trains-by-2016-1.2579826
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitch...-go-service-to-kitchener-in-5-years-1.2654775

The original plans documented by Metrolinx in 2014 clearly indicate "by the end of 2016"
http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pd...26/20140626_BoardMtg_GO_Transit_Report_EN.pdf
http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pd...0140626_BoardMtg_Regional_Express_Rail_EN.pdf

Apparently Minister Del Duca is using the KW MPP as his shill to rewrite history so the Wynne statements no longer are on record. To have "discovered" at this late date that CN might have something to say about increased GO service on their lines is utterly disingenuous.

- Paul

 

[vegeta_skyline]

The CTC system has finally been activated on the Guelph sub/Kitchener line, today was the first day of service. Word is CTC on the remainder of the Newmarket sub/Barrie line from Machell(Aurora) to Painswick(Barrie South) will also finally be in service before the end of the year. This will result in the complete elimination of non-signaled (OCS) territory on all GO lines. The CTC installation was a prerequisite to more service.

 

[timio]

The CTC system has finally been activated on the Guelph sub/Kitchener line, today was the first day of service. Word is CTC on the remainder of the Newmarket sub/Barrie line from Machell(Aurora) to Painswick(Barrie South) will also finally be in service before the end of the year. This will result in the complete elimination of non-signaled (OCS) territory on all GO lines. The CTC installation was a prerequisite to more service.

I know much of the issue is the quality of tracks, but would having proper signalling in place make any difference in the speed trains can travel on the Guelph Sub?

 

[Adjei]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitch...-service-thwarted-by-30-km-of-track-1.3320962

 

[crs1026]

I know much of the issue is the quality of tracks, but would having proper signalling in place make any difference in the speed trains can travel on the Guelph Sub?

In theory yes, but it is not sufficient. Lack of signalling sets an upper limit on what speeds can be. In the US, by law, 'dark territory' is limited to 59 mph. Canada is a little less rigid here, but the regulator has become quite uncomfortable about speeds (and train frequency) in unsignalled territory.

In practice, once you have installed the signals, you still need to fix the tracks before you can raise speeds. The Guelph sub needs work in this regard.

One other thing to note - while the new CTC one the Guelph Sub does assist in running more GO trains safely, it is primarily a "blocking" setup that keeps trains moving in the same direction from overtaking each other. It adds virtually nothing to allow trains to move in both directions at the same time. It will take additional track capacity before this can happen.

- Paul

 

[dowlingm]

In theory yes, but it is not sufficient. Lack of signalling sets an upper limit on what speeds can be. In the US, by law, 'dark territory' is limited to 59 mph. Canada is a little less rigid here, but the regulator has become quite uncomfortable about speeds (and train frequency) in unsignalled territory.

Americans also wonder about VIA trains doing 100mph without cab signals/PTC

(1) Prior to December 31, 2015, where any train is permitted to operate at a speed of 80 or more miles per hour, an automatic cab signal, automatic train stop, or automatic train control system complying with the provisions of this part shall be installed, unless an FRA approved PTC system meeting the requirements of this part for the subject speed and other operating conditions, is installed.
(2) On and after December 31, 2015, where any train is permitted to operate at a speed of 80 or more miles per hour, a PTC system complying with the provisions of subpart I shall be installed and operational, unless FRA approval to continue to operate with an automatic cab signal, automatic train stop, or automatic train control system complying with the provisions of this part has been justified to, and approved by, the Associate Administrator.

The 2015 will presumably become 2018 when the recently passed extension becomes law.

 

[vegeta_skyline]

For the record, unlike the piecemeal approach on the Newmarket sub. the CTC service on the Guelph has been activated on the entire line(89.1 miles) from Silver(Georgetown) to Ashland/Pottersburgh(London);

The CTC is indeed currently only single track the entire route. Controlled locations are as follows;

mile/name
30.0 Silver
39.2 Eramosa
50.2 Hanlon
62.7 Kitchener(siding)
75.1 New Hamburg
88.5 Stratford(siding)
106.0 Kellys(siding)
119.1 Ashland

Current zone speeds(maximum track speeds) are;
70 mph 30.0 to 88.5
10 mph 88.5 to 89.3
60 mph 89.3 to 119.1

However, additional speed restrictions are located at;

PSO's
45 mph 35.5 to 35.7
10 mph 48.8 to 49.8
30 mph 61.8 to 62.8
25 mph 72.03
20 mph 88.3 to 88.5
15 mph 99.7 to 99.97
35 mph 116.5 to 119.1

TSO's
60 mph 48.5 to 48.8
30 mph 58.4 to 59.8 slight difference in mileage for eastward & westward trains
10 mph 62.8 to 63.52 slight difference in mileage for eastward & westward trains
40 mph 63.5 to 70.2
30 mph 72 to 74
25 mph 77.1 to 77.78 slight difference in mileage for eastward & westward trains
30 mph 89.3 to 89.9
25 mph 99.3
40 mph 90 to 116.5
30 mph 109.7 to 119

As you can tell, the track is in very shitty shape, especially west of Kitchener where speeds is restricted below 40 mph on 83% of the track (46.7 miles of 56.4) and that doesn't take into consideration acceleration/deceleration. Only stretch where poor 'ol VIA trains are able to do track speed is just east of Stratford for maybe 6-7 miles in between mileages 77.78 & 88.3.

 

[mdrejhon]

What a patchwork. It almost feels as if some of those tracks must be joined by duct tape.

 

[Allandale25]

Are any of the PSOs or TSOs between Kitchener and Georgetown? How do the engineers know when to slow down for a PSO or TSO? Do they have to watch for the mile post signs along the track or is the number displayed inside the cab on a screen?

 

[smallspy]

Are any of the PSOs or TSOs between Kitchener and Georgetown? How do the engineers know when to slow down for a PSO or TSO? Do they have to watch for the mile post signs along the track or is the number displayed inside the cab on a screen?

Georgetown - beyond Mile 30.0
Kitchener - Mile 62.7

So yes, three PSOs and two TSOs (with a third TSO immediately west of the station, at the former King St. level crossing).

PSOs and TSOs are supposed to be signed as per the CROR sections 40 to 45: https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/railsafety/rules-tco167-164.htm

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[vegeta_skyline]

How do the engineers know when to slow down for a PSO or TSO? Do they have to watch for the mile post signs along the track

In furtherance to smallspy's post, the permanent slow orders are listed in the timetable for the subdivision and the "temporary" slow orders are listing in a daily prepared document(s) called a TGBO or a DOB. TSO's are normally only short term restrictions, but in many cases they can last for months or beyond as has been the case for this particular line some TSO of which have possibly been around for years. TSO's are usually associated with degrading track conditions or recent track work, while PSO are associated with more permanent things like track curvatures or aged structures.

As for how we know when to slow down out in field... Once you become familiar with a line you trend to pick out landmarks which you will relate to an action. i.e. applying the brakes by a specific structure like a bridge or building which will slow you down just in time for the restriction. It's important to note that unlike our roads, there is zero tolerance for speeding.

There also are mile markers along side the track for every mile of the line but not in between, with some exceptions. So if your unfamiliar with a line you would start braking well in advance at a mile marker or two before the restriction depending on how fast your going. But the mile markers are rather small and can be easily missed, especially if your moving at a high rate of speed. If you've never been on a line before and your train has to operate over it, they(the railway) are required to provide whats called a "pilot"(essentially a navigator), basically someone who knows the track well and can let you know when you are closely approaching any track restrictions.

or is the number displayed inside the cab on a screen?

I only wish.
Maybe one day the railway(s) will finally modernize and stop using archaic methods. Every thing is still basically done on paper. We have to pick up our DOB's on paper at the crew center, we have to carry a thousand plus pages of documents in our grips(backpacks). We have to remember to call a foreman working out on the track who's in charge of the safety(the lives) of up to dozens of people with nothing more to remind us than a notation on a peace of paper and temporary signals flags that can easily fall over on the side of the track. Peoples lives are at stake using such flimsy method. Honestly it's embarrassing how far behind the railways in Canada are in communications technology. Instead of having a computer in place that could easily give us real time updates of our location and upcoming restrictions we have to rely on a hundred year old paper based system, just smh.

 

[Allandale25]

Maybe one day the railway(s) will finally modernize and stop using archaic methods. Every thing is still basically done on paper. We have to pick up our DOB's on paper at the crew center, we have to carry a thousand plus pages of documents in our grips(backpacks). We have to remember to call a foreman working out on the track who's in charge of the safety(the lives) of up to dozens of people with nothing more to remind us than a notation on a peace of paper and temporary signals flags that can easily fall over on the side of the track. Peoples lives are at stake using such flimsy method. Honestly it's embarrassing how far behind the railways in Canada are in communications technology. Instead of having a computer in place that could easily give us real time updates of our location and upcoming restrictions we have to rely on a hundred year old paper based system, just smh.

Wow thanks for all the insightful comments. I honestly didn't realize there isn't display/screen/digital number in the cab that shows exactly what mile you're at. What you've described above just gives me even more of an appreciation for the skills, professionalism, and dedication of the train operating crew. I would've thought that an app could be developed to provide a digital sense of the mile location. I wouldn't think with GPS technology it would be that hard or costly to create but I could be wrong as this is outside my area of expertise.

I think I've also seen mile markers on signal poles. Am I correct?

 

[vegeta_skyline]

I would've thought that an app could be developed to provide a digital sense of the mile location. I wouldn't think with GPS technology it would be that hard or costly to create but I could be wrong as this is outside my area of expertise.

There has been some talk of giving us Iphones instead of carrying around all that paper work. But apparently CN won't sign off on it. Really it's preposterous that CN has any say in the matter but because they are actually considered the operating railroad, my rules card (basically my license) has to be signed off by them, they have a say in such matters. GO/MX have been dragging their feet when it comes to taking over that aspect of the operations and in other areas such as the dispatching of trains which CN also still does for GO.

Also the MP40 locomotives and cab cars are not equipped with digital screens that can provide us with that information in the first place. Not sure how difficult it would be to install, but there isn't much space for it on the control stand as is.

think I've also seen mile markers on signal poles. Am I correct?

Every signal is identified by a number which is affixed to it and corresponds with its mileage/location(more or less) on the subdivision. I say more or less because unlike the mile markers which mark the exact spot of a mile, the signal numbers are rounded off to the nearest tenth of a mile, they are always even numbered going east and odd numbered going west and they can in fact be off by several tenths of a mile. Some are off by up to half a mile. So while they can help you figure out where you are, they're not exact.