[DonValleyRainbow]

I think its reasonable because the vast vast majority of GO train passengers drive to the GO station. The only time that parking fees make sense is when there is not enough parking for everyone (such as Finch Station).

The upside of "rewarding" people who get to the station by other means is not worth the penalty of charging almost everyone else a parking rate (which will probably add another $40-$80 to the monthly rate of a GO train passenger) and giving someone an excuse to simply drive downtown.

Just because a majority of GO train passengers drive, does not mean that's reasonable. The status quo is not justification for the status quo.

And there are stations where there parking is becoming overloaded. To date, GO's response has been snapping up nearby pieces of land and creating more lots and structures. This is not an efficient use of this land and it does not promote densification around rapid transit.

The reality is parking is becoming a large capital cost for GO. If fares could be adjusted (lowered) with the uncoupling of parking capital costs from other costs, and the buck for parking passed on only to those who use it, I'm all for it. These carrots and sticks are what drive better development, to a point where driving to a GO station is actually a less preferable choice.

EDIT: I'd add that it was a specific recommendation (12-4) in the Drummond Report.

 

[bobbob911]

GO stations (particularly in the 905) are generally located in areas that are not serviced by transit - its not an option. Not to mention that trying to time a transit arrival to train departure with the possibility of a 30 minute or longer wait if you miss is simply not tenable. (These are just two of the reasons why GO Parking and TTC parking are completely different issues)

For everyone except the almost insignificant number of people that can walk or bike to the average GO station (few of which are situated anywhere near residential areas), introducing parking fees will be a huge disincentive to take the train.

Not to mention that it would almost certainly not be seen as a revenue-neutral switch - the parking rate would be what the market will bear.

 

[TOareaFan]

Just because a majority of GO train passengers drive, does not mean that's reasonable. The status quo is not justification for the status quo.

And there are stations where there parking is becoming overloaded. To date, GO's response has been snapping up nearby pieces of land and creating more lots and structures. This is not an efficient use of this land and it does not promote densification around rapid transit.

That, to be fair, is only part of GO's response....the other has been to sell more an more spots on a reserved parking basis...not sure what price you have/had in mind for general parking but it may be more of a revenue generator to just fill the lots with enough cars that the choice parkers are incented to cough up the $94 for a reserved spot.

I would love to see how much/fast reserved parking revenues are growing....but my sense is the answer is "quite fast" (seem to be more doing it and the price has nearly doubled since I first reserved a spot).

The reality is parking is becoming a large capital cost for GO.

Is it? How many capital intensive parking solutions has GO implemented? How many of those garages have they built? Seems a relative few.

 

[TOareaFan]

GO stations (particularly in the 905) are generally located in areas that are not serviced by transit - its not an option.

None of the stations I am familiar with/use are inaccessible by transit.....but those that are that is problem that the local transit agency.

Not to mention that trying to time a transit arrival to train departure with the possibility of a 30 minute or longer wait if you miss is simply not tenable. (These are just two of the reasons why GO Parking and TTC parking are completely different issues)

Somewhat true but since talk of this is a "future" move and the future includes more GO service then I think it is a diminishing point.

 

[bobbob911]

Somewhat true but since talk of this is a "future" move and the future includes more GO service then I think it is a diminishing point.

Not really - I don't think there are any plans for < 30 minute headways, with the possible exception of SmartTrack stops (unclear at the moment).

 

[nfitz]

Not really - I don't think there are any plans for < 30 minute headways, with the possible exception of SmartTrack stops (unclear at the moment).

The April 17, 2015 announcement by GO and the Ministry of Transportation in Barrie clearly calls for 15-minute a day all-day two-way service (and electrification) between Bramalea and Union by 2022/23; Unionville and Union by 2022/23, Oshawa and Union by 2023/24, Aurora and Union by 2023/24, and Burlington and Union by 2023/24, among other improvements.

Not sure why you don't think there are plans - these plans have already been discussed extensively in this very thread!

 

[TOareaFan]

Not really - I don't think there are any plans for < 30 minute headways, with the possible exception of SmartTrack stops (unclear at the moment).

wasn't the GO ReR promise 15 minute service on all lines that GO owns?

 

[bobbob911]

I stand corrected! (Sorry I didn't review all 497 pages of the thread )

In that context, once implemented (*if* implemented!) it would substantially remove one factor discouraging people from taking transit to the GO station.

 

[robmausser]

Not really - I don't think there are any plans for < 30 minute headways, with the possible exception of SmartTrack stops (unclear at the moment).

This is such a misconception that I'm starting to bash my head against a wall.

GO already opeates two trainsets at a 7 minute frequency dduring rush hour on the Lakeshore West line! Yes, go look at the schedules now, one train leaves 7 minutes after another one during rushhour.

Every 30 minutes is the MAXIMUM transit headway offered on the LS lines.

And GO RER is offering to change this MAXIMUM headway to every 15 minutes and we alreay have better than that now.

People toss around these two headway numbers like they are the limit to what is done and can be done.

 

[bobbob911]

This is such a misconception that I'm starting to bash my head against a wall.

GO already opeates two trainsets at a 7 minute frequency dduring rush hour on the Lakeshore West line! Yes, go look at the schedules now, one train leaves 7 minutes after another one during rushhour.

Every 30 minutes is the MAXIMUM transit headway offered on the LS lines.

And GO RER is offering to change this MAXIMUM headway to every 15 minutes and we alreay have better than that now.

People toss around these two headway numbers like they are the limit to what is done and can be done.

That is probably a local/express run split is it not? (there are similar runs on LSE line).

Regardless, my comment was not referring to whats possible - only whats offered (or what is proposed to be offered). Right now, and for seemingly the next 5+ years, the vast majority of GO service is 30 minute intervals or worse. To expect people to connect from transit to this level of service is not realistic.

 

[nfitz]

That is probably a local/express run split is it not? (there are similar runs on LSE line)

From Oakville inbound in AM peak there are express trains (that skip Port Credit to Mimico) departing at 6:44, 6:59, 7:14, 7:29, 7:35, 7;44, 7:50, 7:58 and 8:14. This in ADDITION to the locals at 6:26, 7:05, 7:20, and 8:24*

They run FAR expresses more than every 30 minutes in rush-hour now. It feels you are looking at a GO schedule from 15 years ago.

* (yes, there's a much needed missing train in there ... for some reason what would be the 7:50 only starts at 8:05 at Port Credit - or the 7:44 or 7:50 express should stop in Port Credit to allow people to change trains - but that's a different issue).

Regardless, my comment was not referring to whats possible - only whats offered (or what is proposed to be offered). Right now, and for seemingly the next 5+ years, the vast majority of GO service is 30 minute intervals or worse. To expect people to connect from transit to this level of service is not realistic.

At rush hour? Where do you get this from? Inbound, Milton is about every 15 minutes; Georgetown is about every 20 minutes. Both stopping everywhere. Even Stouffville, though a bit more erratic, has only 9 minutes between two of the runs.

 

[TOareaFan]

That is probably a local/express run split is it not? (there are similar runs on LSE line).

Regardless, my comment was not referring to whats possible - only whats offered (or what is proposed to be offered). Right now, and for seemingly the next 5+ years, the vast majority of GO service is 30 minute intervals or worse. To expect people to connect from transit to this level of service is not realistic.

And yet, people do it every day! So if some can/do isn't the real challenge to find out how to convince others that it is possible/practical?

I am not an every day GO user (my use varies by time of year) but it is several years since I got to the station by car.....bus works well.....and I am not (by far) the only person doing that!

 

[bobbob911]

I am not an every day GO user

If you *were* an everyday GO user, having to do that would make your head explode.

nfitz, I am a LSE commuter and our line is every 30 minutes during rush hour, with 1 extra in the evening for a brief window of 2 15-minute intervals. I admit I have not rigorously studied all GO schedules however my cursory glance through my iphone GO schedule app showed mainly 30 minute intervals (or worse) for different destinations. I also assumed that Lakeshore line would have best-in-class service, but apparently we are shortchanged on LSE when it comes to this.

 

[robmausser]

If you *were* an everyday GO user, having to do that would make your head explode.

nfitz, I am a LSE commuter and our line is every 30 minutes during rush hour, with 1 extra in the evening for a brief window of 2 15-minute intervals. I admit I have not rigorously studied all GO schedules however my cursory glance through my iphone GO schedule app showed mainly 30 minute intervals (or worse) for different destinations. I also assumed that Lakeshore line would have best-in-class service, but apparently we are shortchanged on LSE when it comes to this.

Lakeshore East operates every 9-15 minutes during rushour into Union and the same in the afternoon return.

Are you sure you are taking the GO train, sounds like you are riding the SLOW train.

 

[crs1026]

This is such a misconception that I'm starting to bash my head against a wall.
(snip)
People toss around these two headway numbers like they are the limit to what is done and can be done.

LSE/LSW is great. However - My forehead is already bruised from watching GO's snail's pace in ramping up the Mount Pleasant service. (Which I rode again today, every time I ride mid-day there are more people on it).

- Paul