[vegeta_skyline]

The press release does not say that

Your right the press release does not say that, but sometimes those with inside information have a little bit more information than press releases.

without owning the tracks/corridor, GO has been able to fulfill its mandate....lots of trains run along the lakeshore every day......each way........increasing to 30 minute frequencies....without owning the track!

Which will actually prove my next point.
I may not have exact figures for how much its cost per train, and even if I was aware of the exact figure I would not be disclosing in public. But I do know this; GO transit does not pay a ‘monthly rent’ for the authority to run trains on CN track. The cost is calculated by something called wheelage. GO trains pays CN a certain amount for every vehicle that runs on their tracks based on the distance they run. Meaning the more trains you run on a corridor the more its going to cost you in wheelage. It is one of GO transit biggest operating expenses and it cost more than the cost of maintaining the tracks themselves. The number of trains that will use the Weston sub in the future is going to increase by a factor of 4 and so will the wheelage cost.
Likewise for the Lakeshore corridor, once GO transit goes to 30 minute all-day service the wheelage costs will almost double.

Its like paying rent for life instead of buying the house outright. Oh and plus your rent increases as if you spend more time in the house. Does that really make any sense to you?

Also you obviously have no idea the behind the scene influence CN has on GO transit operations. Involving themselves in matters of little or no concern but making things unnecessarily difficult from the operations perspective.

In terms of price comparison, just compare this purchase and the length of track involved to the cost of any one of the TTC’s new Transit City lines.
The government of Ontario just dropped 9 billion into Transit city. Compared to that 160 million is chump change.

GO transit does not make this deal if they don’t recuperate the costs in the relative short term (meaning a couple decades). If service were to stay at the same levels it might not make sense but with service increasing it does. This was a deal that CN didn’t really want to make. This is the exact opposite of a subsidiary because CN is well aware that GO is going to increase service and they were perfectly content with retaining ownership because of the future increases in wheelage fees.
I believe that the only reasons they made this deal is
a)political pressure was placed on CN
and/or
b)because of the economy CN was looking for an infusion of cash.

When it come to cutting costs and raising capital CN does some weird things...
This is a company that removed the 2nd track on many of their main lines many years ago because they wanted to cut back on maintenance cost only to realize a few years latter when freight volumes went up that they needed that 2nd track because they were losing more money due to track congestion then it would of cost to keep and maintain the track. In the end they re-built the 2nd track in many areas at an even greater cost.
Clearly that’s genius at work.

 

[toraerach]

Does this mean that GO will be charging Blue22/whatever the airport service will be called rent? If so, I wonder how much revenue that will bring in.

 

[TOareaFan]

Your right the press release does not say that, but sometimes those with inside information have a little bit more information than press releases.



Which will actually prove my next point, thanks.
You seem to have no idea how the cost of running a train on CN track is calculated, allow me to educate the uninformed.
I may not have exact figures for how much its cost per train, and even if I was aware of the exact figure I would not be disclosing in public. But I do know this; GO transit does not pay a ‘monthly rent’ for the authority to run trains on CN track. The cost is calculated by something called wheelage. GO trains pays CN a certain amount for every vehicle that runs on their tracks based on the distance they run. Meaning the more trains you run on a corridor the more its going to cost you in wheelage. It is one of GO transit biggest operating expenses and it cost more than the cost of maintaining the tracks themselves. The number of trains that will use the Weston sub in the future is going to increase by a factor of 4 and so will the wheelage cost.
Likewise for the Lakeshore corridor, once GO transit goes to 30 minute all-day service the wheelage costs will almost double.

Its like paying rent for life instead of buying the house outright. Oh and plus your rent increases as if you spend more time in the house. Does that really make any sense to you?

Also you obviously have no idea the behind the scene influence CN has on GO transit operations. Involving themselves in matters of little or no concern but making things unnecessarily difficult from the operations perspective.

In terms of price comparison, just compare this purchase and the length of track involved to the cost of any one of the TTC’s new Transit City lines.

And please 160 million is chump change. The government of Ontario just dropped 9 billion into Transit city.

GO transit does not make this deal if they don’t recuperate the costs in the relative short term (meaning a couple decades). If service were to stay at the same levels it might not make sense but with service increasing it does. This was a deal that CN didn’t really want to make. This is the exact opposite of a subsidiary because CN is well aware that GO is going to increase service and they were prefectly content with retaining ownership because of the future inreases in wheelage fees.
I believe that the only reasons they made this deal is
a)political pressure was placed on CN
or
b)because of the economy CN was looking for an infusion of cash.

When it come to cutting costs and rasing capital CN does some weird things...
This is a company that removed the 2nd track on many of their main lines many years ago because they wanted to cut back on maintenance cost only to realize a few years latter when freight volumes went up that they needed that 2nd track because they were losing more money due to track congestion then it would of cost to keep and maintain the track. In the end they re-built the 2nd track in many areas at an even greater cost.
Clearly that’s genius at work.

You are absolutely right....I am not an insider, I don't know those things....good for you if you do but I thought the point of discussion boards was to find out new stuff......congratulations for succesfully lording your higher knowledge over me.

Let's be clear though.......I am not looking for, nor expecting, GO to lay out a massive amount of numbers and calculations to prove to me that the cost recovery makes sense. I happen to be someone that generally trusts authority figures and the statments they make.....but a simple statement in the press release that says something like "in addition to having greater control over the corridor, GO expects to recover the $160 million by way of reduced operating costs over a X year period...." or words to that effect.

The fact that there was no statement implies, to me, that one of three things are at play:

1. the number has been calculated and it is not that impressive; or
2. they never thought to calculate the number;
3. they are simply operating on the "tell our bosses (the public) the bare minimum information possible" philosophy.

 

[drum118]

Do you know if the replacement bridge will have room for two tracks? Not that they'll be putting in two tracks now, but it only makes sense to have room for two for the day when do have double track all the way up. The current bridge only has room for a single track.

TOS

It will be a double track bridge and that what it should be in the first place.

There will be Extensions to the existing end piers to get the double track bridge in. The new 3rd track bridge in Burlington was done this way.

 

[tapper of spines]

It will be a double track bridge and that what it should be in the first place.

I assume, as you said, that this was awarded at the meeting yesterday? Any other news from the meeting?

TOS

 

[vegeta_skyline]

I would suggest a bypass of Milton to the south of Derry Road, however, recent suburban development has made this option impractical compared with wye construction using an abandoned rail corridor adjacent to parkland.

I agree with that as well, that would of been optimal but is now not really an option because of all the new subdivisions. They could go even further south but that would involve purchasing significant swaths of land, increasing the cost of such a 'by-pass'. And cost is always an issue where private enterprise is involved.

1. the number has been calculated and it is not that impressive; or
2. they never thought to calculate the number;
3. they are simply operating on the "tell our bosses (the public) the bare minimum information possible" philosophy.

1. The numbers are never that impressive when it comes to public transit, virtually all systems in the world operate with the assistance of some kind of subsidiary from one or more levels of governance.

2. The numbers are always calculated.

3. I'll agree that GO transit, like many other government agencies is not always very forthcoming when it comes to their budget.
However for the most part it doesn't seem to be that much of an issue.
How many people here have deeper questions on this purchase by GO transit? Only you so far.

How many major new networks ran this story? Not a single one, it was nowhere to be found almost like it didn't even happen. Personally I couldn't believe that they ignored such a positive development. It seems as though the public at large is not to interested in the finer details, if they were perhaps the exact costs involved would be expressed.

Lastly and ultimately I believe this is the reason why such information is not made public.

You seem to be forgetting that there is a private enterprise involved here - CN.
Almost certainly there is a none-discourse stipulation within the agreement/contract GO has for running rights over CN territory with regards to wheelage rates. Such agreements are binding even when they involve government agencies.

 

[drum118]

New Union Station Platforms

I will put this posting on the new platforms 25-27 at Union unless someone thinks it should be a separate thread.

The platforms look finish and waiting for track 13 for 25 & 26. Track 14 was put in some time ago. This means GO will have 2 more platforms for service

There is the video shot April 9

 

[canarob]

Thanks for the post. I had forgotten all about this.

 

[Dan416]

I'll say this much for it: It looks a lot better than the old Track 13 that Milton used.

 

[ShonTron]

Bus schedule improvements. Looks quite good. Finally, there's some more afternoon buses from Brampton to Union Station in the afternoon weekdays, though a 7:30 PM bus would be nice and perhaps some express runs.

Also minor schedule changes on some Lakeshore Trains and bus connections.

Milton

Two new eastbound Saturday bus trips departing Milton GO Station.
Two new westbound Saturday bus trips departing Union Station.
A new eastbound Sunday and holiday bus trip departing Meadowvale GO Station.
A new westbound Sunday and holiday bus trip departing Union Station.
Nine new weekday eastbound bus trips departing Square One.
Three new weekday eastbound bus trips departing Milton GO Station.
One new weekday westbound bus trip departing Union Station.

Stouffville

Starting Saturday, April 25, new service includes:
A new weekend southbound bus will depart Lincolnville GO Station at 10:30 a.m., making all regular stops to Union Station.An additional two northbound trips will leave Union Station at 4:10 p.m. and 5:10 p.m., making all regular stops to Lincolnville.

On Monday, April 27, seven new bus trips will begin, including:
Two new weekday southbound bus trips will leave Centennial GO Station
at 11:01 a.m. and 11:31 a.m., making all stops to Union Station.
Five new weekday southbound bus trips will depart from Lincolnville GO
Station at 11:30 a.m., 6:00 p.m., 9:10 p.m., 10:10 p.m., and 11:10 p.m., making all stops to Union Station.

Georgetown

Three new weekend eastbound bus trips departing Georgetown GO Station at 1:25 p.m., 2:25 p.m., and 3:25 p.m. making all regular stops to Steeles Ave. and Rutherford Rd. in Brampton, then operating express to Union Station.

Three new weekend westbound bus trips departing Union Station at 3:20 p.m., 4:20 p.m., and 5:20 p.m. operating express to Steeles Ave. and Rutherford Rd. in Brampton, then making all regular stops to Georgetown GO Station.

Two new weekday eastbound bus trips departing Brampton GO Station at 4:35 p.m. and 5:35 p.m. making all regular stops to Malton GO Station, then operating express to Union Station.

Newmarket

Starting Saturday, April 25, Additional weekend southbound and northbound bus trips are being added between Newmarket GO Bus Terminal and Union Station Bus Terminal, making all regular stops.
Four new weekend southbound trips will leave Newmarket GO Bus Terminal
making regular stops to Union Station. Departure times from Newmarket are 9:40
a.m., 10:40 a.m., 3:40 p.m., and 4:40 p.m.
Four new weekend northbound trips will leave Union Station making all
regular stops to Newmarket GO Bus Terminal. Departure times from Union Station
are 10:40 a.m., 11:40 a.m., 4:40 p.m., and 5:40 p.m.
A new weekday eastbound bus trip will leave Meadowvale GO Station at 6:05
a.m., making all stops to York University.

 

[RedRocket191]

Woot!

 

[lordmandeep]

Two new weekday eastbound bus trips departing Brampton GO Station at 4:35 p.m. and 5:35 p.m. making all regular stops to Malton GO Station, then operating express to Union Station.

when is this coming to effect.

It would change my whole commute when I have those night classes.

 

[ShonTron]

The week of the 25th/27th as all the other changes.

 

[allabootmatt]

Don't those new platforms at Union look a little short for monster GO trains?

 

[EnviroTO]

Don't those new platforms at Union look a little short for monster GO trains?

That is an optical illusion. On the straight stretch they can fit 10 GO cars so probably with the platform on the curve and at the far end they can fit 12 car trains.